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Old 02-21-2012, 03:31 AM   #1
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The pump is heavy :0| ...4.65 pounds!..looking to maybe swapping it out...



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Old 02-21-2012, 05:04 AM   #2
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Aviat uses a Holley blue fuel pump on their certified smoke systems. Like $75 from Summit. You have to take the bottom off and pull the vanes to file them down. It then pumps oil much better. Mine sucked at first on the C but now it smokes really good.



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Old 02-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #3
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GRIND the vanes, not file them. LOL!

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Old 02-21-2012, 01:40 PM   #4
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The blue pumps I searched for are around $135, I couldn't find one around $75....I also couldn't find the weight referenced anywhere, one site said 3.6 pounds, but that was shopping cart/shipping weight (I think). If that pump is 3.6 pounds, then I may end up leaving the original pump in there...
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:38 PM   #5
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I think all fuel pumps are pretty heavy. My Skybolt had a dukes boost pump and it really put out...

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Old 02-21-2012, 11:44 PM   #6
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My walbro boost pump weighs 1.2 pounds..
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:57 AM   #7
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I had the big dukes that pumped about 4 gallons of oil a minute.

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Old 02-22-2012, 01:44 AM   #8
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I replaced the smoke pump in my buddies extra. I wasnt expecting it to be as heavy as it was. Speaking of which, Beej, how do you fill your system? The system in the extra is pretty slick, there is a quick disconnect in the belly you hook the fill hose to, put the arm switch in the fill position then wait. There is a sending unit in the tank that shuts off the pump when the tanks full. Put switch back to arm and pull the fill hose. Ready to go.

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Old 02-22-2012, 01:48 AM   #9
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It has an external fill kit:
http://www.smokingairplanes.com/EXTERNALFILLFITTING-2.htm


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Old 02-27-2012, 02:10 AM   #10
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Well, I decided to take a risk, I did some looking around and bought a Carter vane type pump (P4594) (at $55 it was worth a loss if it doesn't work out). The specs are 60-80 GPH, 8PSI. The guy at smoking airplanes has said (google) that the optimum flow is usually about 0.8 GPM. I think I will put them both on a bench, hook up to battery and compare the flow...
Oh, and the Carter pump weighs 2.6 pounds. Now I feel better.
What is nice about the supplied pump, is that they can be ran dry for 10 hours without breaking...I am guessing maybe that is why they are used in the kit..built like a tank..less chance of returned goods. I think if I was an airshow pilot squirting smoke every weekend (frequent and heavy use) then I'd stick with the heavier pump, but my set up is only for the occasional blast.
By the way, the smoking airplanes kit is incredible....every little detail has been thought of....all the components are neatly bagged with little labels all over the place, and no matter how small, every component is supplied, from a circuit breaker down to lengths of safety wire. Nice kit.

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Old 02-27-2012, 07:55 AM   #11
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This is the Skybolt with the big Dukes pump. It would fill up a 5 gallon bucket with oil in no time. .8 gallon per minute will not smoke good at all. You need WAY more than that. My Pitts sucked.... I had to modify the pump and its alot better but nothing like this Skybolt was. I have never seen one smoke this good. So do not believe .8 gpm is good. this is probably 4 gallons per minute.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:03 PM   #12
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From smokingairplanes.com website:
3.5 GALLON SMOKE SYSTEM CAPACITY AND RUN TIME

OIL TANK CAPACITYSA-100 SERIES KITS

APPROXIMATE GALLONS OF OIL USED PER MINUTE

APPROXIMATE TOTAL RUN TIME AT BEST OIL MIXTURE VALVE SETTING

3.5 US GALLONS 5+ MINUTES

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Old 02-28-2012, 12:42 AM   #13
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I'd love to get my head inside skip Stewart's S2S, man does that thing have big smoke. I'd copy that system in a heartbeat! He prolly has the best smoke I've ever seen!

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Old 02-28-2012, 12:46 AM   #14
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Doesn't he run at 1.1?

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Old 02-28-2012, 12:55 AM   #15
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He just may, I don't know. I've heard the most efficient was 1 gpm he may have more than one injector.

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Old 02-28-2012, 04:14 AM   #16
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All I know is that when my S-2C put out less than a gallon a minute is smoked about like a 2 stroke dirtbike. The skybolt poured out of each exhaust about like a waterhose turned half way on. I have played with this quite a bit.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:47 AM   #17
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I came across this....don't laugh...http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/accessories/index.html
This would be perfect for someone wanting 'some smoke now and again', without resorting to fire breathing approaches. Cheap and light. I don't know what that baby pump is, but looking at the smoke pics it doesn't do too bad a job (OK, it's not exactly pigpens heavy duty puff the magic dragon routine, but you're not burning a meal for four in 1 minute either...).

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Old 02-29-2012, 09:31 AM   #18
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Come on Beej. Its only 10 bucks a gallon. I bought a 55 gallon drum when I got the Skybolt. I am down to 3 gallons and I am done.

Texaco Canopus 13

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Old 03-01-2012, 02:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpenracing
Come on Beej. Its only 10 bucks a gallon. I bought a 55 gallon drum when I got the Skybolt. I am down to 3 gallons and I am done.
Texaco Canopus 13
We are more on the same page than u realize
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:16 AM   #20
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I did some tests this morning for those who might be thinking of doing their own system.
I had a buddy come over to help (a retired heart valve engineer.. he took over :0) ) and we set up the pump on the bench, attached to a battery and switch. With a simple out one bucket and into the other bucket route, and replicating the 'pump pull uphill' of 8 inches (the vertical distance of the flop tube to the top of the tank) the pump was putting out 1.2 GPM. Then we decided to fine tune things and replicate the hose routing and used the non return valve, regulator and filter that's in the kit, the final max number we could achieve with an open regulator was .91 GPM.
I decided to fit the pump and fashioned a new bracket today. The original pump I will mothball away.
Conclusion: The Carter pump weighs 2.25 pounds (accuracy; Fedex scales). The bracket did weigh .4 pounds, it now weighs .25 after cutting off the surplus and adding a couple of lightening holes. So, 2.5 total. Having scoured the web for optimum flow rates, the consensus seems to be .8 to 1.1 depending upon whether you are using one or two injectors. I will be using 1 injector into a 4-1 exhaust.
The proof of course, is in the pudding, so I wont really know till I 'smoke it'...all part of the journey and fun of building a biplane! What Ido know is, I don't need smoke like in Pigpen's picture at whatever GPM that is using, but I do need more smoke than the little Sonex pump kit offering mentioned in a post above...I think I may have ended up 'in the middle' somewhere....

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Old 03-04-2012, 12:47 AM   #21
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Heat a pipe up to 1200 degrees and run some oil through it inside your hanger to conclude the test. LOL!!!

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Old 03-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #22
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I think I read somewhere that Jim Leroy's original Bulldog had a 17 gallon smoke tank. That's 1.13 gallons per minute for a 15 minute routine.

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Old 03-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #23
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I don't think he ran it the full 15 minutes? It was probably on and off and lasted 15 minutes.

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Old 03-04-2012, 05:32 PM   #24
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For a data point in your experimenting, our smokewinders for our demo shows at work, use 6 gallons of 13 wt machine oil, flowed at 100 psi to 9 nozzles downstream of the combuster section. Smoke time is a total of 6 minutes. We burn approximately 1 gal of avgas at the same time. As the combustion air is supplied via ram air, it takes a minimum of 100 kts to light them off and we can keep them lit til .8 Mach. Not exactly a light system, but works well for our birds.
Happy smokin...

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Old 03-04-2012, 10:47 PM   #25
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Proof is in the putting....sorry, pet peeve.



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