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Old 04-23-2012, 04:48 PM   #1
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Default Super Baby Great Lakes performance

How does the Super Baby Great Lakes perform/handle compared to a Pitts?

Thanks,
Jay



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Old 11-13-2012, 02:07 AM   #2
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What? Several months and no takers? Come on Mr. Rose. You gotta have something to say to this...



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Old 11-13-2012, 04:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdus View Post
How does the Super Baby Great Lakes perform/handle compared to a Pitts?

Thanks,
Jay
I don't think I saw this post until now. I have about 15 hours in a Baby Lakes powered by an 80HP Limbach (VW). Performance from a field elevation of 4,232 was nominal until the air temp reached 65F. After that I didn't dare fly it anymore. Climb rate was 200fpm. It was very small, I stuck out the top in the wind. It would lose 300 feet in a snap roll, and you had to dive like crazy to get a loop out of it. I don't have experience in a BL with higher power. I have over 850 hours in Pitts, mostly S-1S, S-2A and S-2B. Nothing flies like a Pitts, and I mean nothing! A Baby Lakes is okay for gentle aerobatics if you are a small person and fit. If a BL was such a great aerobatic airplane I would think they would be flown in contests and airshows, but I've never heard of anyone flying one in either of those disciplines. Good Luck,

Danny
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:19 PM   #4
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At 6'5" tall the BGL is not an airplane I'd know anything about. As Danny said, there's not much presence in the akro community to go by either.

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Old 11-13-2012, 04:11 PM   #5
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There's a new BGL in New Zealand that seems to be flying acro with none of the problems Danny experienced. Videos are one Youtube; let me see if I can find a link...

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Old 11-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #6
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:32 PM   #7
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There is a nice pilot report on: http://airbum.com/pireps/PirepBabyLakes.html

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Old 02-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #8
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Just as a matter of interest, if you go to YouTube you will see my old Baby Lakes.
(ThundaDownUnder)
It runs a Rotax 912 as far as bang for bucks this plane can't be beat, so easy to fly it's a joke, it's not up to a Pitt's but who cares! Champagne flying on a beer budget.

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Old 11-28-2013, 06:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
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There is a nice pilot report on: http://airbum.com/pireps/PirepBabyLakes.html
I just learned this evening where that airplane is located (#4). Just talked to the guy who gave it to a friend (needs cover, not for sale). Who remembers from the above referenced pilot report:

"In terms of flight characteristics, I think one of the possible problem areas for new pilots would be the way in which the airplane jumps up on ground effect so quickly on takeoff and will fly when its barely ready to. If it's allowed to get off the ground and then is pulled up out of ground effect too soon, it could easily stall or drop a wing. This is something you would get used to after a coupleof takeoffs, but extending the gear a little bit, just enough to bring the ground angle closer to stall and get the airplane up off the ground as well, would solve most of the ground effect problems. It would also make the airplane look a hell of a lot better."

I would bet this peculiarity is due to the misrigged upper wing problem indicative of early airplanes like mine with the cabane weldment dimensional error causing about a 5 degree positive incidence error on the upper wing. I am going to see if I can confirm that is true now that I know where this airplane is located. I only flew mine once before the misrigging was corrected so cannot personally attest to the effect on takeoff on mine before correcting. I can attest to the fact that after mine was corrected, it will go as fast as you care to go without liftoff until given just a tiny touch of back pressure.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:17 AM   #10
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I am interested to know if that helps. I have been told the BGL still has the tendency to try to fly before it is ready even with the new style cabane. I don't blame it, I'm eager to fly too!

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Old 11-28-2013, 12:44 PM   #11
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I recall when I decided to sell my C120 and get some kind of biplane. This was before internet days(1978) so it was Trade-a-plane that I spent time looking over. I was considering anything within about 500 miles. I was in my mentor's shop and asked him what he thought about a Smith Mini that was not too far away. He said,

"Just another face in the crowd"

I asked, "What then"?

He replied,

PITTS SPECIAL!

I ended up with a well used S1C/150hp that had plenty of life left and am so very happy to have owned it for a couple years.....

Don't get me wrong, I have owned and flown several other bipes and enjoyed them all but IMO nothing, repeat, Nothing, I say again, NOTHING else comes close to a Pitts.

I look forward to getting my SA750 in the air and will likely enjoy it but I have exactly zero hope of it being anywhere equal to my Pitts ride. I'd love to have a simple 180 horse S2A but alas I am indeed on a coke budget.....the AcroDuster project was priced right and I went for it but I think I understand where I will be at on the ladder of sport bipes.....

I like working on airplanes and have worked towards completion on a couple and finished the Spezio but have never had the heart to start from scratch. I therefore look for a "deal that will do" so to speak. But if I were ever to start from scratch, it would have to be a Pitts.......

Another thing. I'm NOT an expert acro pilot, not even close. If anything I'm a barrel roll and loop guy. But at least with a Pitts, if I go play and it's not exactly right I know exactly where the fault lays, on the pilot NOT the plane.....:-)

OTOH, I suspect a Baby Lakes, super or otherwise, if well done would be a fun ride......Heck, I even liked my EAA bipe..... My major issue with all of them is, if the fan quits, look over the front edge of the bottom wing:

That's where you are going to land!

With due respect,

Jack

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Old 11-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Rider View Post
Just as a matter of interest, if you go to YouTube you will see my old Baby Lakes.
(ThundaDownUnder)
It runs a Rotax 912 as far as bang for bucks this plane can't be beat, so easy to fly it's a joke, it's not up to a Pitt's but who cares! Champagne flying on a beer budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHYLZqEZG0
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #13
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I am interested to know if that helps. I have been told the BGL still has the tendency to try to fly before it is ready even with the new style cabane. I don't blame it, I'm eager to fly too!
I have only my Baby to judge this quality and mine has virtually the same incidence (just perceptibly more) on upper wing as lower wing which is between 1 & 2 degrees as best I can measure with a machinist protractor and rig to simulate a wing reference plane. The wing incidence angle(s) are provided to allow a level fuselage in level cruise flight. A level fuselage on the ground will produce the same wing incidence as in level flight so will have sufficient angle to produce enough lift to lift the airplane after attaining flying speed. I assume the difference between zero and positive incidence is a matter of a small difference in the tail height. If true, then pilot experience should allow for holding the tail high enough on take-off roll to prevent a premature liftoff. Any airplane exhibiting a "problem" in this respect should be checked for correct incidence angles on both wings. Although weightless, the airplane should require some down force at the tail to climb and although elevator should overpower most pitch trim schemes, it might be a good idea to insure trim is set for level rather than climbing flight.

Propeller to ground clearance should be checked with fuselage slightly nose low before holding significant nose down attitude on takeoff roll. Ground effect will be greater with shorter legs -mine has 15.5 in. legs (measured to c.l. axle).


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