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Old 09-22-2017, 06:31 PM   #26
Lotahp1
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Default Starduster too fuel systems

Dave,

I'll look at my tank when Im out working on it this Sunday. If I recall correctly I have a bung and it's plugged where your flop tube is. (On aft side of header tank. But I'm recalling it being lower like Bill was talking about.) in any regards it was not used before. Since I'm redoing the fuel system I want to make sure I correct any issues and don't create new ones!

If that lower AUX bung is plugged and there is only a "main" and "Wing" tank position on the fuel selector does that mean that the lower header portion is all unusable? Or would it suck it up the stand pipe since I have a engine driven pump and boost pump? Seems like there's a chance it could run dry and allow the "prime" to be taken away from the "main" fuel outlet. Or is there enough vacuum created by the pump to re prime the main outlet and allow fuel up the stand pipe?

Seems like I need to connect the AUX flop tube location to the main outlet via a hose from each to a T fitting then the hose to the "main" on my selector. Make since? It would pick up at both locations but you just wouldn't have a "AUX" position on the selector. Is a one way check valve needed ?

This has me very interested now. I'll see EXACTLY what I really do have and make a diagram and some pics Sunday.

Sorry to thread jack the original guy but seems like he's in the same boat. Hope we can all learn something. Thanks again Dave and Bill!



Last edited by Lotahp1; 09-22-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:22 PM   #27
Dave Baxter
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Default Starduster Fuel System Non Inverted Tank

Kris, When I built Fuel Tanks For Stolp Aircraft back in the late 60s, I would build about 8 to 10 tanks at a time, and usually several would be of the non inverted type, in that holes chassis punch or hole saw would be used to cut holes in the floor of the main tank, or the roof of the sump. Some had their vent lines attached to one of two single smaller weld on fitting, but many just had a vented fuel cap, and the outlet to the engine was usually at the aft lower part of the sump.

Some people that had inverted tanks, and not sure how they should be plumbed did all sorts of things with them? Others did not install a flop tube, and just used the rear lower outlet to feed the engine, even though it may have been an inverted tank.

Those that built their own tanks or had a friend build one for them, unfortunately come in all sorts of configurations, regarding internal plumbing and external venting. Fortunately most bought tantks from Starduster.

Picture shown is of a typical non inverted tank, from back in the day. Dave


fuelsystem and tank schematic 4 small JPG.JPG   More on gas tank ventingsmall.JPG  
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Finished Two Stardusters, 180 and 540 Also built a Marquart MA-4 and have an SA-100 Starduster project

Last edited by Dave Baxter; 09-22-2017 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:56 PM   #28
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotahp1 View Post
"I have a SD too with a 35gal main tank (checked from empty with 5gal gas cans) and a 16gal center wing tank. 5 gal is unusable in the main tank."

5 gallons unusable????? That's a crazy amount. That's 30lbs that does nothing. Are you sure? Really odd how different all the Starduster Too tank sizes are. From 27-35 gallon main tank is a big range for basically the same space taken up. I wonder how many gallons the "factory" tank was or if there were many "factory" tanks made?

With my "mission" and goals for my plane I can't see Not having the wing tank. But I'm flying behind a thirsty engine like Tom. On cross countries it's always nice to have more than enough. For local only play. Yes I can see never needing a wing tank.
The build sheet calls for 35gal tank. All three wheels on the ground and it takes 30 gal to fill after draining dry. I'm sure in level flight more would be useable, but if you went below that the engine would quit in the flare. The pickup at the main tank is weird. I'll try to take a picture in the future. There is an outlet at the very back of the tank but it is not used. Instead it has a pick up about six inches further fwd. That leaves a bunch in the tank you can't drain. Like I said weird.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:56 PM   #29
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Default Starlet weight reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFF1 View Post
A Starlet with a 65 hp Continental will probably use under 4 gal an hour cruise so if you had room for 20 gallons you could probably have a no reserve 5 hours. It will not be a rocket. 100-110 mph probably. As much as i love parasols, something like a Sonerai IIL going 145 mph on the same fuel burn makes more sense.
Lets say the SD. Starlet weighs in at 500lbs empty. and only need 65 hp to be efficient flyer. LY 320 eating 5.5 gph minimum. Not knowing the engine weight I could think it would be close to a VW 4 banger 230 lbs maybe 250 ? and that is some lame HP when I can turbo a twin cil with half the weight and have near twice the hp. Trim off 100 lbs I know from the engine bay then what? Where does that send your CG movement? So if we need to trim some tail weight lets go Carbon tube on the frame ! Carbon tube is far superior strengths to aluminum under fatigue and carbon skin and Spar . With the strength of CF being being equal to steel at one fifth the weight is easy to see shedding pounds off this build. Please don't give up on me , I can only go as fast a knowledge will allow. From the conception of flight we have come along ways and if we take our new concepts and materials back to our old school toys they become better then originals. A carbon frame is not going to rust from the inside out or outside in. The pricing on CF tubing is coming down as the supply in stock is increasing. Economy is playing into that I am sure and for a future builder that is a very good thing. Keep flying guys I love your help and I can't thank you enough. Impossible is just a challenge word made up by a non believer. ) Dave could you give me a estimate of total weight of tubing and the weight of the spar and the fuel tanks if they were in a pile on your trailer how much do you think it would be?



Last edited by 2GUNS; 09-23-2017 at 02:49 AM. Reason: direct question
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