The Biplane Forum > Biplane Builder's Forums > Acrosport > Acrosport Miscellaneous > Rolling Left



Help Support Biplane Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-03-2017, 05:13 PM   #1
MarkSchmitz
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Liked 8 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default Rolling Left

I recently conducted the first flight of my ASII. After 3 hours of flying and taking care of a few other issues, I'm working on a problem that requires me to hold significant right pressure on the stick to avoid a fairly hard roll to the left. I've re-checked the rigging on the wings and ailerons using levels and rigging boards. Everything appears to be lined up and according to specification. I also double-checked the tail and all is good there as well. In flight, when I hold the stick neutral so I'm in straight and level flight, I can see that the upper right aileron is deflected down 1/4" or so. The other ailerons are all in line with the wings. Curious because when it's on the ground, the ailerons are all lined up with the stick neutral. Suggestions on where to start or how to remedy?

Thanks -

Mark
N2JT


MarkSchmitz is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 05:25 PM   #2
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 5,361
Liked 2494 Times on 1202 Posts
Likes Given: 3602

Default

hi Mark, how many rigging boards did you make and use? also, lets see some pics of your acro 2!


__________________
Chris Murley
Acrosport 2S N13XT
Wolf Aircraft Products / Griggs Aircraft
Tunkhannock, PA
smizo is offline  
MarkSchmitz Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 07:50 PM   #3
MarkSchmitz
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Liked 8 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Hi Chris - I used three rigging boards. Now let's see if I can attach a picture...
IMG_5125.jpg  
MarkSchmitz is offline  
6
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 08:30 PM   #4
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 5,361
Liked 2494 Times on 1202 Posts
Likes Given: 3602

Default

well that's certainly colorful and unique. very cool! when you did the top wing, ya cant really do it like a pitts because of the joints. you need one on the center section, one inboard on one side and one at the tip. then make sure all line up and that will get that wing straight with the center section, then do the other side that way. then you know your top wing is perfectly flat. then put one at each tip and one on the center section to check for twist.

http://www.biplaneforum.com/showpost...&postcount=685

if you hold the ailerons straight and they are in trail does the plane bank?

if yes the wings are twisted.

if you let go of the stick do the ailerons pull over to one side and the plane bank?

if yes its an aileron alignment problem.


oh, and did you build this from scratch, buy it or restore it? either way congrats on the first flight! huge accomplishment!!
__________________
Chris Murley
Acrosport 2S N13XT
Wolf Aircraft Products / Griggs Aircraft
Tunkhannock, PA

Last edited by smizo; 10-03-2017 at 08:33 PM.
smizo is offline  
MarkSchmitz Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 08:57 PM   #5
Larry Lyons
Registered Users
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Larry Lyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stockton, IL.
Posts: 3,341
Liked 775 Times on 591 Posts
Likes Given: 1391

Default

That's a beautiful airplane!
__________________
Larry Lyons
Rebuilt:
Smith Mini, flying
Taylorcraft, almost flying
and on going Taylorcraft project



Always carry a knife with you. Just in case there's cheesecake or you need to put someone down!
Larry Lyons is offline  
MarkSchmitz Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 08:59 PM   #6
Cameron
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Cameron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,053
Liked 555 Times on 336 Posts
Likes Given: 203

Send a message via MSN to Cameron
Default

Nice ASII!
__________________
Owner/Builder of a Christen Eagle II
http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=9575
Cameron is online now  
MarkSchmitz Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 09:32 PM   #7
PGE2015
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 46
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

If it was me with this issue I would check the tension in the flying/landing/ rudder wires. In flight the loads maybe causing a twist in either the tail or wing due to a difference in wire tension, if the aerilons are trailing and lined up under no load. I am thinking about 750 lbs tension is typical.
__________________
Starduster N84MM
C170 N1277D
PGE2015 is offline  
MarkSchmitz Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 01:14 AM   #8
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Chicago Acrosport 2 Pitts S-1S
Posts: 1,934
Liked 668 Times on 417 Posts
Likes Given: 938

Default

Mark,
Really nice looking Acro 2.
i just got back from Oshkosh and my right leg was numb from holding right rudder in level flight and the rigging for the 150 hp had the left wing low at the cruise speed of the 180hp. Today i removed 2 washers from the right rear i-strut and adjusted the slave strut to trail all ailerons.
i will also add a trim tab to the rudder which i had made several years ago but not found yet. As you know everything is set at zero, zero on the Acro but if you flew free flight models you added about 2 degrees down and right thrust to the engine mount.
i would start with rudder to hold heading in cruise and see if the wings are level, if not add washers to rear spar of the low wing until it flys hands off, then add trim to the rudder until it flys straight and level.Let us know how it works out.
__________________
Dennis near Chicago
How can you not be romantic about biplanes.
If your Father is poor it's fate, if your Father-in-law is poor it's stupidity
Wilbur Wright said he "did not have time for both a wife and an airplane."
Which is the better portion -- bondage bought with a ring,
Or a harem of dusky beauties, fifty tied in a string?
Dennis Flamini is offline  
MarkSchmitz Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 01:07 PM   #9
MarkSchmitz
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Liked 8 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Thank you all for the thoughts and suggestions! Based on the comments, I believe the biggest issue is an aileron alignment problem: With the ailerons held straight, there's no roll. When I release the stick, the ailerons deflect and it rolls to the left. Of course, there may be a combination of issues that will require some fine tuning by adjusting tensions, use of washers under the I-struts and so forth. I'll post as I work the problem.

Jim Triplett (RIP) of Ames Iowa was the primary builder and it was mostly complete when I bought it in May 2016. Jim had been working on it for several years in my hangar and I guess I got hooked. Being familiar with his craftsmanship and having prior hands-on build time with him made it a comfortable purchase. The bonus to the first flight was the enthusiastic response from Jim's widow when I called to let her know it had been in the air. She still brings people by the hangar to see it and that says something about its place in their lives.

Last edited by MarkSchmitz; 10-04-2017 at 01:11 PM.
MarkSchmitz is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 02:54 PM   #10
iowaboy
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Walford Iowa
Posts: 58
Liked 12 Times on 7 Posts
Likes Given: 82

Default

Mark that is a beautiful Acro Sport II! Good job on finishing it. I can see why Mrs. Triplett is happy to bring people to see it. It is sad that Jim did not get to fly in it. I hope I will get to see it some day at a flyin!


__________________
Mike Townsley from SE Iowa

EAA biplane poject that I purchased
that has never flown.
iowaboy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
aileron, rigging, roll

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
bead rolling JimW Skybolt Miscellaneous 13 05-20-2016 03:37 PM
Rolling right.... How to fix LouB747 Christen Eagle 10 03-07-2015 07:54 PM
Wheels, let's talk rolling Smithacb Steen Skybolt 8 09-08-2014 12:45 PM
Oil Pressure Drops When Rolling to Inverted and Again Rolling to Upright S2e Lycoming & Continental 7 06-11-2013 03:18 AM
Skybolt rolling left at 155mph JeremyHolt Skybolt Miscellaneous 7 07-30-2012 09:40 PM