The Biplane Forum > Biplane Builder's Forums > Starduster > Acroduster vibration, time to bail out?



Help Support Biplane Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-24-2017, 08:47 PM   #1
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default Acroduster vibration, time to bail out?

I think I might have figured out the vibration issue but maybe not? It doesn't matter because 160 HP just isn't enough.

After completing the phase 1 sign-off and doing the W&B I found it could only be flown with Marcia in the front pit within a very narrow fuel load@ 1320#. I could "fix" that with a 3" prop extension and/or going back to a the heavy starter. But it's not really a fix.

Bottom line, today we found that @ 1317# gross and 90F. the airplane is a pig, climbs like a C150. Except for my Phase 1 V-speed test when I loaded the front seat with sand bags(which was a cool day) I have been flying the airplane at more like 1200#. It's no Pitts but fun enough to fly. But I don't need a single place airplane (unless a Pitts). The plan was always for it to be a family airplane.

We flew around awhile before landing back at home. I asked Marcia what she thought? She offered two things,

"I liked the Starduster Too better."

"I'd just as soon fly the Spezio."

I was thinking exactly the same thing as regards the Spezio.

My next thing to do was dynamic balance. Why bother? I will most likely sell the IO320B1A as a core. Marcia suggested finding a decent O360. I don't know if I want to basically start over? We can't afford two airplanes. Basic Med for me is problematic. I could fly the airplane single place with a 180-200 HP @ 1320# but I don't want to do that. If we keep an airplane going it has to be for both of us. Marcia says she doesn't care but I do.

Oh well. I'll think about it but I'm leaning toward two FS ads, one for the engine and another for the airframe.

It's been a blast. I'm glad I did it but frankly I'm tired.

Warm regards,

Jack


__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17

Last edited by EAABipe40FF; 09-24-2017 at 08:52 PM.
EAABipe40FF is offline  
cwspilot Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 10:04 PM   #2
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,712
Liked 459 Times on 356 Posts

Default

I wish I was in a position to take it off your hands. But sometimes it is time to move on when it comes to ownership. Less worrying and more fun.


TFF1 is offline  
EAABipe40FF Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 01:36 AM   #3
cactusav8r
Cactusav8r
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cactusav8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Athens, AL
Posts: 712
Liked 137 Times on 97 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Default

Hmm.. Times like this?

I think listen to your wife.

She suggested finding a decent O-360. Sell your O-320 and look for an O-360. If you don't find it, then you can always sell the plane later. I bet you can find something this winter..
__________________
JohnS
cactusav8r is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 01:48 AM   #4
will moffitt
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
will moffitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Anacortes, Wa
Posts: 1,292
Liked 311 Times on 221 Posts
Likes Given: 502

Default

When we bought our 150 in 1985 we flew a lot together. about 10 years ago she said no. I guess she wanted to die in the same smoking hole in the ground surrounded by av gas. She rethought that and did not want to go anymore. So why be bored so I bought the one holer Starduster. We are both happy. I call it my mistress as the wife says it gets more love and money than she does. Listen to Marcia.

will
will moffitt is offline  
EAABipe40FF Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 01:59 AM   #5
biplanebob
Member
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
biplanebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pennsylvania,United States
Posts: 804
Liked 316 Times on 221 Posts
Likes Given: 1650

Default

My wife used to fly with me when we were dating.......now, the helmet messes up her hair.

She allows me to keep the airplane and go to fly-ins because it is better than hanging out in bars.

The plan has been working for the last 31 years, LOL

Bob
__________________
biplanebob,

Built and flying a Willie II Biplane
biplanebob is online now  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 04:33 AM   #6
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

I'll add one other comment about why Marcia supports my airplane habit. She is a nurse(now happily retired)and understands that with my back pain issues, that I need something I really like to keep me sane.

Some here joke about my constant "tinkering" and I understand but frankly I'd rather be working on my airplane than almost any other single thing. My life is full but the airplanes do help maintain my sanity. Tinkering helps me forget the pain.

That said we are under water $/airplane wise. Not nearly as bad as some other fellows but with Marcia now retired it's more of an issue. One of them has to go and keeping the Tu-holer makes the most sense.......

You guys have no idea how much you mean to me! Or maybe you do? The forum probably has as much to do with my sanity as the airplane (and of coarse my very understanding wife)

Thank You from the bottom of my heart!

Jack
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17

Last edited by EAABipe40FF; 09-25-2017 at 04:41 AM.
EAABipe40FF is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 04:37 AM   #7
Knight Twister
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: My mom\'s basement in flyover country
Posts: 2,417
Liked 925 Times on 596 Posts
Likes Given: 90

Default

I'm in love.....with flying alone.

Last edited by Knight Twister; 09-25-2017 at 06:26 AM.
Knight Twister is online now  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:33 AM   #8
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

There have been times when flying has been a wonderful experience. For me it has always been a wonder for the machine as much as for flying itself. I don't know if other pilots/builders understand me exactly but I love airplanes more than flying.

I love the challenges both large and small. Building, in my case completing a project and making it's first flight is something only someone who has done it can appreciate.
I'm captivated by the wonder of flight, that this relatively heavy object can lift off the ground. I look out at the wing and try to visualize the air over and around it causing enough lift to fly...... I take satisfaction in the fact that I made the machine come together and it actually FLYS.

I also love the small challenges. Getting the rigging right. Getting the cooling both CHT's and oil temps right. The canopies have been a significant challenge. Heck, every part is a challenge for me evidenced by the pile of rejected ones.......

My next will be spades for the Tu-holer. Really looking forward to making the airplane more enjoyable. Need to pull the radio out of the Duster and install in the Tu-holer plus an intercom.

Flying has to be a part of it. One must fly in order to see if the fixes work. But I do like airplanes more than flying.......

(I'm glad no one ever saw me lay my chin on the TD of the Pitts and wrap my arms around it and give it a hug.)

Will and Bob probably nailed why Marcia supports my airplane habit. It is a mistress making no time for another women and keeps me out of bars(or whatever since I don't often drink)


I probably should quit thinking about it.....I'm getting a plan in the back of my mind......


Find someone with a Pitts project who needs a two place biplane. Shouldn't be too hard to convince Marcia the best way to get the $ out of the Duster is to trade-build a Pitts to sell instead.........

Might take a while to sell it?

Jack

Oh, what did I say before? I don't need a single place airplane. Yea, right!
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17

Last edited by EAABipe40FF; 09-25-2017 at 07:37 AM.
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:52 AM   #9
Lotahp1
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Lotahp1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,541
Liked 669 Times on 482 Posts

Default

I think you nailed it. You must go to the design of your heart. And it's clearly a Pitts for you. I'd say sell the AcroDuster and get a Pitts. Keep the Spezio as long as you can afford and when the time comes you Really need the cash (sorry but with $50 a month rent for hangar every month that fits both and a Spezio that the Original just sold for less than $13k...I think it's not costing you much to keep and won't gain you very much when you sell...so it's more of a do you want to maintain two planes when she's said she doesn't care. Maybe just have the Pitts and rent a two place a couple times a year?)

I wouldn't bother if I was you with a 0-360. I just don't think you're in love enough...and it won't be doable as a two place at 1320lbs. You will have to up the gross. Why spend the effort? Sell and get a S1C that you truly want. Or a Starduster Too that actually fits your mission? But again, it's not your Pitts. Get your Pitts...you have your health and she's given you the green light. Don't waste the time doing something you really don't like.
Lotahp1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 10:35 AM   #10
Acromaniac
Registered Users
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Acromaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 51
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Aloha Jack,

Another vote for follow your heart. go for the Pitts.
__________________
Pitts S1S
Champion 7GCAA (Sold due to Pitts obsession)
Acromaniac is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 12:11 PM   #11
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

I'm smiling, almost laughing about what we sometimes write late at night after a hard day at play.

The Pitts is really far in the back of my mind. No longer a necessity. It's probably better to fantasize about it than to have one. Main problem is I can't take the G's anymore. If I could my plan was to get back into aerobatics with some dual and compete in the Acroduster 2. Remember that I'm still LSA and which rules out a Pitts anyway. Basic Med might work but my medical issues are too long a story. If my regular MD's insurance carrier signs off it's a go as he understands it all.....I haven't talked to him again about it.

No the Spezio is enough for my flying fix. Marcia does enjoy going to fly ins but could do without. I'm looking forward to playing with spades, been pondering them and think I have the design figured out. Even have several feet of small streamlined tubing.

Of coarse if the right trade opportunity surfaced.............


Thanks for the support and understanding.

Jack
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17

Last edited by EAABipe40FF; 09-25-2017 at 12:17 PM.
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 01:47 PM   #12
crankyklingon
 
crankyklingon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Springfield Ga
Posts: 1,608
Liked 649 Times on 420 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

ECI makes a stroker kit for that 320 that makes a bit over 180 hp. Less to change fwf and since you need an overhaul anyway...just trying to muddy the water a bit more.😁
__________________
Rob
crankyklingon is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 01:15 AM   #13
Don Adamson
Senior Member
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Don Adamson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lonoke, AR
Posts: 363
Liked 25 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 32

Default

Or if you have a wide deck case; 360 crank, rods and cylinders bolt on.
__________________
Don Adamson
Don Adamson is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 02:04 AM   #14
Dennis5678
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 442
Liked 36 Times on 34 Posts
Likes Given: 924

Default

Oh NO don't sell the ADII
Like the idea of upgrading the engine with a stroker kit. Don't know anything about the conversion. Once a LSA keep it that way. You are the builder and you set the gross weight.
__________________
Dennis McGuire
Jacksonville FL ( Birth place of the Pitts )
Dennis5678 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 05:45 AM   #15
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

With due respect I don't need an overhaul. I need a vacation. The next owner can keep it LSA or not. It may be a selling point. It is not for sale yet although the engine may be soon. I have a factory conical mount but it's only 20", I guess correct for 200 HP w/CS? (My current mount is 24" and should even be a little longer...)

I'm going to think about it for awhile. Maybe an engine will fall into my lap but I don't know, I'm tired of it right now!

Meanwhile I made the right hand spade for the Spezio. Rode the bike today and left camera at home.

Jack
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17
EAABipe40FF is offline  
cwspilot Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 01:59 AM   #16
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,712
Liked 459 Times on 356 Posts

Default

I think you did a great job making this thing LSA. I think where you are having the problem with the plane is that it is LSA. It never can live up to the Pitts of your past without 200HP. You tamed the beast more than you wanted. I think the Pitts is just about perfect too, but I think you want to be a little scared again flying just a hair over your head. Without the HP you cant have the WOW! You're probably a little too experienced now for that to happen, anyway. If it did, you would probably be more smitten. What is funny is I have a Type II HIO360 company core sitting on the floor that will not be shipped for another year; then the engine coming out becomes the core. If you were here we would be dealing.
TFF1 is offline  
EAABipe40FF Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 02:33 AM   #17
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

That darn Kendall posting all the AD2's has me thinking again......... So does a HIO360

You are about 90% correct in your evaluation. I no longer need the wow factor every day although 200 ponies would be nice. I think I could be satisfied with the present engine but it has me spooked. If not for the vibration and/or metal in oil issue I could have been well satisfied. I figured a well maintained 2000 hour engine would give me a couple hundred more trouble free hours. I rolled the dice and lost.

The mistake I made was simple and obvious and I shouldn't have missed it. I was fooled by the Spezio who's front seat is on the CG. The AD2 is NOT. 2-place was always the end game and even viable remaining LSA IF I had made the mount a couple inches longer. Marcia and I can haul 12 gal. of gas @ 1320#, plenty for local but it puts us .10 " aft of the limit. I could even fix that w/prop extension. Take a little twist out of the prop and it would be fine performance wise, at least as much fun as the Tu-holer.

But I'm not putting more money into a little motor!

Marcia in her wisdom told me to take a deep breath and not do anything rash. So I guess I might be tempted by a 360 cu." Lycoming........(edit, if I had any $ left)

Jack


__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17

Last edited by EAABipe40FF; 09-27-2017 at 06:38 AM.
EAABipe40FF is offline  
biplanebob Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Acroduster 2 Vibration Part 5 EAABipe40FF Starduster 11 09-23-2017 04:18 AM
Acroduster vibration, oil analysis part 4 EAABipe40FF Starduster 6 09-15-2017 04:50 PM
Acroduster 2 vibration, low end aviation, etc. part 3 EAABipe40FF Starduster 13 08-24-2017 01:27 AM
Acroduster 2 vibration, bottom feeding etc. Part 2 EAABipe40FF Starduster 10 08-17-2017 06:29 PM
Bail-out rigs Beej Aerobatics Talk 6 02-24-2007 08:35 PM