The Biplane Forum > General Discussion > Hangar Talk > AN Turnbuckle assembies questions



Help Support Biplane Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2017, 01:25 AM   #1
lakeracer69
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 101
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default AN Turnbuckle assembies questions

Calling A&P's, Calling A&P's
Ok, I'm coming up to speed on these components. My Bitt's build uses 1/8" galvanized cable (7 X 19) for all the "Flying Wires" on the plane. Ten wires in all, five per side. I am looking at making cables with swaged 1/4-28 stud end (MS21260) on one end and a swaged fork end (MS20667) on the other. It seems that these are both available in stainless. Is that the way to go or is Cad plated steel (for these fittings) the way to go for strength? In the end, the flying wires are tensioned with a standard cable tension gauge.

Next question, I am looking at the long brass barrels slotted for safety clips, and a turnbuckle fork 1/4-28 (MS21252) to complete each wire assembly. Are the brass barrels ok for this use or do I need the steel ones? I have the Standard Aircraft Handbook to reference from.

With the PROPER swaging tool, can these ends be safely attached by an individual with reasonable mechanical skills? Or does this require them to be sent out and done with specialized machinery?

Thanks for any help,
John H. in NH


lakeracer69 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 01:36 AM   #2
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,760
Liked 476 Times on 372 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I would PM Mong and see what he says. You can ONLY use the correct tooling to swage the ends. It costs more than a set of streamline wires and your cables WILL fail if you dont use it. You will have to find someone with the machine or get ACS to make them.


TFF1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:06 AM   #3
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,837
Liked 1406 Times on 1052 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Here you go;

https://www.mcmaster.com/#3429t4/=1adg2io

When I had the rudder cables done for my first airplane project the guy who did it used a war surplus portable tool. He described the process as being very fussy with a high percentage of scrap for those without a complete understanding of the process.

Later, the entire first set of swaged wires for Polecat were scrapped due to cracked fittings on most of the wires.
__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS


Last edited by cwilliamrose; 11-23-2017 at 02:10 AM.
cwilliamrose is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 02:16 AM   #4
Dennis5678
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 487
Liked 41 Times on 39 Posts
Likes Given: 1029

Default

I used stainless steel ends. Done at an airport that had the tool
There is a go no go gauge to make sure the proper squeeze has been done. Check with your local airport that have a maintenance shop.
I think plated ones will have the plating come off after the squeeze.
__________________
Dennis McGuire
Jacksonville FL ( Birth place of the Pitts )
Dennis5678 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 04:44 AM   #5
lakeracer69
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 101
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Ok, buying that machine is out of the question $$$$$$$$ouch. I went to Loos and Co. and watched a couple of videos. It doesn't look difficult to do correctly with the proper tool.

The tool that does terminal ends is not the same as the one that does sleeves.

Anyone in the Northeast have one in their shop that will do terminal ends or know of someone who does? The closer to NH the better!

I am exploring all options
lakeracer69 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 12:08 PM   #6
Randy
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville, Mich.
Posts: 1,506
Liked 59 Times on 36 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default AN Turnbuckle assembies questions

I have had Aircraft Spruce do my rudder cable swaging for almost 40 years ?? They have the equipment and experience. Just tell them what hardware you want to use and the pin center to center length and wait at the mailbox - - -
__________________
Life is not measured by how many breaths you take but by the moments that take your breath away

Randy
Randy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 12:29 PM   #7
billdit
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 21
Default

Not as neat but how about using a thimble in the eye of a turnbuckle and nicopress the ends? You can do a 5 tuck navy splice instead of the nicopress sleeves. The look would be smoother but they are a pain to do.
billdit is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 01:14 PM   #8
PittsDriver68
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NH
Posts: 3,693
Liked 968 Times on 697 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

In NH, I believe that Lou Edmonds up at Newport has the equipment. Edmonds Aircraft Service. Lou does really good work.

Best of luck,

Wes
PittsDriver68 is offline  
lakeracer69 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 10:53 PM   #9
lakeracer69
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 101
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Awesome news, thanks for the information!
lakeracer69 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 02:59 PM   #10
Lotahp1
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Lotahp1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,617
Liked 688 Times on 496 Posts

Default

Id use Stainless ends and Id see if I could use Stainless cable in place of the galvanized also. I will say I use to make cables at my old job and you need to make sure that you specify you want pre stretched cables. You have adjustment but can easily run out if youre already a tad long and then the cables stretch some...and new cable will stretch some.
Lotahp1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 05:39 PM   #11
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,837
Liked 1406 Times on 1052 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Here's a photo of one of the rejected swagged ends from Polecat. This is 1x19 S/S cable. Actually we rejected all the wires done in this batch even though some didn't look this bad.
Swaged Wire -- Crack.JPG  
__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 03:05 PM   #12
lakeracer69
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 101
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Great info guys keep it coming. I also had a thought and did a little research. Sailboat riggers also use all these fittings. Maybe more so, as the demand for high end sailing equipment is greater than aviation related cabling needs. They may also use the equipment on a more regular basis and be more proficient at it. Just a thought on a wider choice of providers to do this.
lakeracer69 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 03:21 PM   #13
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,760
Liked 476 Times on 372 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

You might find an A&P instructor that might find pity or some old timer that has one.
TFF1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 04:24 PM   #14
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,837
Liked 1406 Times on 1052 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

The folks who did the bad swages for Polecat were doing sailboat parts. I don't remember who did the replacements.
__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 06:52 PM   #15
Dave Baxter
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Helens, Oregon
Posts: 1,246
Liked 490 Times on 289 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Cable Swagging

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeracer69 View Post
Great info guys keep it coming. I also had a thought and did a little research. Sailboat riggers also use all these fittings. Maybe more so, as the demand for high end sailing equipment is greater than aviation related cabling needs. They may also use the equipment on a more regular basis and be more proficient at it. Just a thought on a wider choice of providers to do this.
One thing to consider if you have them made by other than aircraft fabricators, is do not to tell them it is for an airplane, tell them it is for an off road vehicle. I once had a guy that would not sell me paint because I was going to use it on an airplane. Some people are really paranoid when it comes to liability. Dave
__________________
Dave Baxter
O-540 powered Skybolt Flying sold with 63 hrs on the clock.
Finished Two Stardusters, 180 and 540 Also built a Marquart MA-4 and have an SA-100 Starduster project
Dave Baxter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 07:52 PM   #16
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 5,483
Liked 2642 Times on 1256 Posts
Likes Given: 3746

Default

We have a nicopress tool. Northeast pa. You’re welcome to come use it.
__________________
Chris Murley
Acrosport 2S N13XT
Wolf Aircraft Products / Griggs Aircraft
Tunkhannock, PA
smizo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 08:12 PM   #17
lakeracer69
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 101
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilliamrose View Post
The folks who did the bad swages for Polecat were doing sailboat parts. I don't remember who did the replacements.
Ok, so there was that great idea.

Added some numbers for 1/8 ( 7 X 19) cable

Stainless:

316 Breaking strength/ 1670lbs Working load 334lbs
304 " / 1760lbs " 352lbs

Galvanized:
" /2000lbs " 400lbs
lakeracer69 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 08:13 PM   #18
lakeracer69
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 101
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smizo View Post
We have a nicopress tool. Northeast pa. Youre welcome to come use it.
Thanks Chris, I may take you up on that for the rudder cables.


lakeracer69 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
O-290 questions Dana Lycoming & Continental 34 03-15-2017 12:50 AM
S2E questions rdwrv4 Pitts 7 05-12-2015 12:47 AM
O-540 questions... ckhd Steen Skybolt 7 09-04-2012 12:41 AM
S-1D Questions cincypilot Pitts 26 09-18-2010 02:25 AM
TIG Questions Beej Skybolt Miscellaneous 6 03-27-2008 05:46 PM