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Old 08-13-2017, 02:24 AM   #1
Anthos92
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Default High performance S1 wing plans

Hi All,

Lately, I've noticed more talk about various wings which have been offered by various companies over the years as people search to gain higher performance from their otherwise relatively stock S1's. To me it seems, Wolf followed by Raven currently seem to be the two leaders in this field offering kits for home construction, however, I am curious to know the history behind other wing designs. I know Spar craft previously offered wing kit. The only other names I am familiar with are Falcon and Ultimate. Were Falcon and Ultimate offered as kits or only plans? I'm keen to know if there have been more wing designs sold other than the standard Curtiss developed ones?

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Old 08-13-2017, 03:00 AM   #2
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Scheumenann wing. Kit is currently sold by max aero in Hartford.


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Old 08-13-2017, 05:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottseagle2 View Post
Scheumenann wing. Kit is currently sold by max aero in Hartford.
Any details or pictures?!
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Acrobum View Post
Any details or pictures?!
we used a Scheumenann wing kit. it is more or less a stock wing kit using his style of leading edge. There is another Pitts S-11b on this forum that used the same wing kit (at least it looks like it in the pictures). Never saw a S1 with them

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Old 08-13-2017, 11:43 PM   #5
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The wolf wings ,are by far the best kit,and most Performance ever offered for the Pitts
Danny 007
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:44 AM   #6
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The wolf wings ,are by far the best kit,and most Performance ever offered for the Pitts
Danny 007
Yep, I figured that from the various reports, however, I'm still keen to hear the good/bad of the other kits. I was asked recently by an aspiring Pitts owner about falcon wings which are installed on an S1 he is looking to buy. That's when I realized I know essentially nothing about the other wings which have been avaliable over the years, and as such, this is exactly what I said to him as I pointed him towards this forum! :-D
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:57 AM   #7
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Many years ago I bought the Falcon wing plans. I had no intention of building a set, I just wanted to see all the design and linkage that was used for the hidden slave struts. The Falcons plans were offered just after Kenny Blaylock finished his beast of an S1 with the 540. The plans came with wing rib router patterns and to me looked like a way to build an overweight set of wings. Those plans are resting comfortably somewhere in my basement.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:34 AM   #8
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Default Wings

There were two generations of Sparcraft wings. The first generation, which is probably 90% of the Sparcraft wings, used 1/4" routed plywood ribs. They were prone to breakage if flown hard. The ailerons/roll rate was nowhere near the Curtis/factory S1S wings. This was mainly due to poor design of the aileron cove. Sparcraft were kit only although there were assembly plans. They also sold fitting sets and drag wires.
The second generation wings were called featherweight. 1/16" plywood ribs with spruce capstrip reinforcements. Plywood leading edge.
I believe the Ultimate wings were available as plans, kits or complete wings. Also a few complete airplanes as Canadian regs allow that.
Personally I detest the appearance of the square wingtips. The Wolf and S1 11 tips I can tolerate but I really prefer the traditional round tips.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:40 PM   #9
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Jim can correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that the Sparcraft came along because at least initially there were no plans for the S1S wing the only option was buying a kit. Sparcraft tried to fill a need and they found out it was not easy to build a better mouse trap.

My mentor got trapped in the middle. He owned my old S1C at some point and wanted a S1S so he purchased a kit from Pitts. As I recall the story the initial kits were too complete and wouldn't pass the FAA 51% deal as the wing was fully assembled and ready to cover. So he sold the wings and got a Sparcraft wing kit. I don't think he finished the kit? Whatever he sold the both the kit and the S1C (which he had also restored at some point) and purchased a factory S1S.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:04 PM   #10
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Eddie Saurenman is designing some wings for the Pitts S1..same as those he did for Skip Stewart Pitts S2S
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #11
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The second generation wings were called featherweight. 1/16" plywood ribs with spruce capstrip reinforcements. Plywood leading edge.
This describes the Precision wings on my hangar mates's S-1. Interestingly enough, it rolls no faster than an S-1T, even though its symmetrical ailerons have a wider chord, are one rib bay longer, and extend to the square wing tips.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
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The second generation wings were called featherweight. 1/16" plywood ribs with spruce capstrip reinforcements. Plywood leading edge.
I have a set on my S-1S, the only set that I know of personally, they were 14 pounds over all lighter than the V1 Sparcraft wings. They are symmetrical ailerons but not really, they are just snow cone ailerons. No fancy airfoil with a round nose hinged at 18% chord. That's the down fall because you don't have natural balancing. Spades are certainly needed, even with gap seals. But, they certainly roll faster than the V1 wings and more control effectiveness. Somewhere around 200-210 deg/sec at 154mph.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:20 PM   #13
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If you have any other naked photos of those Gen2 Sparcraft wings I'd love to see them.
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:26 PM   #14
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Those ribs look like more work and wasted wood than a plain built up rib imho.
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:45 PM   #15
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"Those ribs look like more work and wasted wood than a plain built up rib imho."

Agreed,and not as strong as the original

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Old 08-14-2017, 04:55 PM   #16
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Those ribs look like more work and wasted wood than a plain built up rib imho.
On the other hand, you could make a good web template, at which point you could crank out ribs much more quickly, as there's less manual labor: you cut about 1/2 as many vertical and diagonal pieces of spruce. If you were doing it at home, the extra 15 or 30 minutes a rib don't matter much, but for mass production, that makes a huge difference. I'm guessing that's why there were so many Sparcraft wings out there.

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Old 08-14-2017, 05:03 PM   #17
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My S1 had the version 1 "bad" Sparcraft wings. Flew fine for me as I wasn't an aerobatic stud. The well built Sparcraft wings held together fine. Bad workmanship can apply to anything and degrade its performance and longevity. I also had a version 2 Sparcraft kit that came through a trade but I passed it on in another trade. No one can dispute Sparcrafts wood quality,(at the time) its better than many Pitts wings I've seen out of Afton. The factory S1 that I worked on extensively (serial #33) had just ok looking grain line on the spars.
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Old 08-14-2017, 06:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-luc View Post
Eddie Saurenman is designing some wings for the Pitts S1..same as those he did for Skip Stewart Pitts S2S

The s-2 kit that is on Skip Stewart's plane is also available at Max Aero Hartford Wisconsin.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:49 PM   #19
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Jim Is right, the Ultimate wings were available as plans, kits or complete wings.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:30 AM   #20
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Ultimate wings ,have a great roll rate,both fast and slow,they also corner very well
I just hate the way they look
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:23 PM   #21
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Default Ultimate

Ultimate cornering performance is terrible.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:28 PM   #22
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If u have a 800 pound Ultimate the cornering is awesome.Problem is most ultimates are well over 900 pounds
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:14 AM   #23
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I bought a set of Falcon and Ultimate Pitts Wing Plans from Devin York years ago just to have around for reference. He thought he had the fuselage plans somewhere for the Falcon but he couldn't locate them at the time.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:25 AM   #24
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Not an S-1, but rather a S-2C wing going together at the factory. The factory took a thing or two from the V2 Sparcraft wing
IMG_8433.JPG  
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:16 AM   #25
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So the S2C wings are plywood routed ribs? Where exactly were the 1/4" plywood ribs failing on the Sparcraft wings? Starduster Too use 1/4" plywood ribs and I've never heard of any issues with them. Maybe they are slightly heavier (I'm curious about that even after you glue all the 1/16" ply gussets on etc...I wonder what the total weight difference actually is?)


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