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Old 09-19-2017, 01:12 AM   #1
bipedream
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Default FAA Lien Record

I'm trying to purchase an airplane and ordered the FAA data CD. The aircraft has a county tax lien on it's record. The amount was fairly small when recorded but could be higher with interest and penalties if it hasn't been paid.

There is no record of releasing the lien and the county it was recorded in is another state.

The owner says it was paid but doesn't have any records with him. He now lives out of the country.

I am planning to fly out and pick up the airplane this week but I'm thinking about delaying until the owner gets the record cleared.

Any suggestions from anyone who has dealt with this before on an airplane purchase?


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Old 09-19-2017, 02:27 AM   #2
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If you belong to AOPA they can do a title search that will show if it has clear title with no liens, many times when they are paid the registered owner fails to make sure the lien has been removed and yrs later when the owner wants to sell, can muck up the sale!

Yrs ago here locally we had an old boy that was the resident Super Cub guru bought a really nice Super Cub cheap! Thought he got a smoken hot deal? When he wet to register it in his name, he got a call from a federal Marshal that asked to see the airplane, they met at the airport and the marshal verified the N Number and promptly put his lock on the hanger door! Turns out the airplane had been used to hunt game illegally, and they confiscated it! Also many times people have used their airplanes for collateral for personal loans, and even when the loan was paid off the bank still had the title! Dave


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Old 09-19-2017, 02:27 AM   #3
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Check with Aopa with their title search.. it could save you a ton of trouble and money
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:00 AM   #4
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AOPA title search says it searches for liens in the FAA records.
https://www.aerospacereports.com/ser...rch-package-95

I already got those directly from the FAA for $10 and there's a lien there. The question is now what? I like the airplane and would like to go through with the purchase but getting the lien released requires the entity who filed the lien, to file a release with the FAA.

I think I'm in the situation Dave mentioned where the records just haven't been updated. It was for a few hundred dollars of use tax but the clear title part makes me a little wary.

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Old 09-19-2017, 03:08 AM   #5
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Don't make an emotional commitment to the purchase of that particular airplane.

Put the burden of clearing the lien on the seller. He is selling an airplane with a dirty title, even if he is out of the country, it is his problem.

Make a purchase offer contingent on a clear title.

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Old 09-19-2017, 03:40 AM   #6
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Sounds like good advice.

I'll see what the owner does and be willing to walk away if it doesn't get cleared.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:24 PM   #7
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Agreed, you're taking the right course. There are too many airplanes out there to get hung up on one (though it's really easy, and after more than a year of searching, it was easy to fall into the "But I'll never find another one like this!" trap when I was looking last year).

Supposedly, the title search will do the legwork for you to confirm whether the lien is real or not, though I'm not sure how much I buy that, since they seem to have the same access that any citizen does. I suspect most people use them as a way to cover their bases, and have someone to sue if things go south.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:36 PM   #8
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BLANK LIEN RELEASE.pdf

The seller (or you) need to have the lienholder on record fill out and submit this form to the FAA.

I had to do this to a lien from back in the 1960's that was paid off, but the lein release paperwork was never sent to the FAA.

Luckily for me, the bank was still in business, and still the same name.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:37 PM   #9
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If it is still on the FAA records, then they never received a release of lien (obviously). The person named in the lien would need to contact the lienholder and get them to file a release (FAA Form 8050-41).

I use AIC for all of my aircraft transfers because they have handled lien issues for me in the past. www.aictitle.com
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:57 PM   #10
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I suggested a notarized copy of the lien release paperwork, as submitted to the FAA by the lien holder as documentation. The seller will have to arrange everything.

Either that or waiting for the FAA records to be updated to the seller.

Is that reasonable?

If it takes too long, I'll just keep looking.

Last edited by bipedream; 09-19-2017 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bipedream View Post
I suggested a notarized copy of the lien release paperwork, as submitted to the FAA by the lien holder as documentation. The seller will have to arrange everything.

Either that or waiting for the FAA records to be updated to the seller.

Is that reasonable?

If it takes too long, I'll just keep looking.


It will take a minimum of 90 days before things are recorded and updated in OKC.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndlakesdreamer View Post
It will take a minimum of 90 days before things are recorded and updated in OKC.
Not true.
If you use a title company service in OKC, they will walk the docs over, hand deliver, and have them recorded and updated the same day.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:19 PM   #13
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If it won't jinx it, what plane have you found, bipedream?
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:32 AM   #14
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I put it in the off topic area in case that question got asked
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:09 PM   #15
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Okay one more question.

I received confirmation from the lien holder it has been paid and I confirmed the FAA has received the paperwork but won't record it for about a week due to their processing time.

Is that enough to complete the deal or should I wait for the final FAA record to be updated?

Normally an extra couple weeks wouldn't be a big deal but the weather is looking good for the flight home and Pacific Northwest weather towards the end of October is often bad.
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:17 PM   #16
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In my humble opinion if the lien holder has signed off your good to go. I guess its your call, are you sure you were talking got the right people at both the county and the FAA?

PS: My Smith was acquired this way and yes it took time but it was all resolved in the end and I have a plane in my name.
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:28 PM   #17
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You are golden once the lienholder signs and you have copies of everything.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:39 AM   #18
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how far away is it? I just flew from Des Moines Iowa to seattle area 3 weeks ago to beat the weather change but as u know the smoke was almost as bad as the weather can be.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:27 AM   #19
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All sorted and flew the new bird home from Chino to Seattle Friday. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:55 AM   #20
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Pictures?
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:06 AM   #21
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I'll be excommunicated from the forum but here goes Flew the -4 from CNO-PAE on Friday. ~900 nmi with some diversions around TFRs. After the Skybolt it is strange to see where you are going.

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Old 10-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #22
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Going fast and seeing where you are going has its advantages. Have fun with it. I know I would.

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Old 10-10-2017, 02:02 PM   #23
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That looks like SO much fun. I love the romance of biplanes but I've heard so many people say the RV4 is probably the best all around value for speed, economy, utility, and fun. My Dad has an RV-8 and he is like a kid on Christmas morning when he talks about it. Nice ride man!

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Old 10-10-2017, 03:42 PM   #24
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Is that at Ashland? The hangar and hills look right, but the pump looks a little different than I recall. Ashland was my overnight stop both north and southbound to and from LA.
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:56 PM   #25
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Did you look at the size of that hanger door!


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