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Old 08-22-2017, 01:11 PM   #1
EAABipe40FF
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Default Replacing Dynafocal Lord mounts

I have a IO320 B1A with the type 2 mount. I found installing engine on mount really nasty. So my question,

Can the "Lord" mounts be changed w/o completely removal of engine like by holding with hoist, loosening and replacing either top and then bottom mounts?

I'm also considering mount swapping top/bottom or in/out as a diagnostic tool before buying new. If that makes an improvement then go ahead and purchase new mounts?

Thanks,

Jack


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Old 08-22-2017, 01:58 PM   #2
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Jack,
You will have no problem changing mounts with engine hoist but it is handy to have a second puller to go around the crank to adjust the angle of lift.
Our last mount used Aircraft Spruce ring and $247 mounts, The Aviat mounts were $480.
We installed all 4 bolts thru mounts and engine without having to pry anything.


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Old 08-22-2017, 02:06 PM   #3
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A couple of tools make putting the mounts together easier.

Cut a 1" section of old bolt and lathe turn or file it into the shape of a bullet. Use that ahead of the bolt that you are inserting and let it align the rubber parts with the ear of the engine as you push the bolt into place.

A friend made a special clamp out of some scrap steel that has each side shapes as a pair of fingers. One side's fingers hold the aft face of the rear rubber mount and the other side of the clamp grabs the engine ear. This clamp pulls/squeezes the engine and mount rubber into place so that you can slide the bolt in.

Best of luck,

Wes
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Old 08-22-2017, 04:24 PM   #4
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Any chance you have photos of the clamps your friend made?
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Old 08-22-2017, 04:27 PM   #5
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I can ask him for some.

Wes
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:01 PM   #6
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My Lord mounts seem to be stuck to the engine mount. Any trick to remove without damaging them?
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:15 PM   #7
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I doubt your going to hurt them. Stick the bolt in part way and pop it loose. Mallet tap will not hurt one. The only way I hurt one was cutting one in half with a bandsaw.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAABipe40FF View Post
I have a IO320 B1A with the type 2 mount. I found installing engine on mount really nasty. So my question,

Can the "Lord" mounts be changed w/o completely removal of engine like by holding with hoist, loosening and replacing either top and then bottom mounts?

I'm also considering mount swapping top/bottom or in/out as a diagnostic tool before buying new. If that makes an improvement then go ahead and purchase new mounts?

Thanks,

Jack
Jack you can also use some short pieces of thread a bolt, all thread one size smaller an inch or two longer, this allows you to assemble the whole works together and tighten them up prior to placing the correct engine mount bolt, as it will compress the mount and get it all lined up, picture enclosed.

Also do you have the large Dynafocal mounts or the smaller ones, I have a full set of new small ones, they are old, but have never been on an airplane, And if you need the smaller ones, pictured in the engine mount, let me know and I will send them to you. Dave
SAM_2324 small.jpg   Scan-140602-0002 engine mout Isolaters 1.jpg   SAM_0157 small .jpg   SAM_0159 small .jpg  
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:15 PM   #9
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Dave,

Thanks but pretty sure I have the large ones. I'm going there later and will double check.

Jack
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:51 PM   #10
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Jack,

How old are the mounts? If there is a chance that they are the original mounts from the Twin Commanche, the rubber compound has probably hardened and taken a set.

Rotating the mounts may be a wasted effort.......and due to sag, getting them lined up in a new position may be even more difficult than normal.

edit: The old mounts may be only a small part of the vibration problem, since the vibration showed up late in your test program.
As others have said: the engine is trying to tell you something.

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Old 08-23-2017, 02:29 AM   #11
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Maybe, maybe not? I'm not doing anything until the oil sample is checked which could be definitive if bad.

If not then look for something else. So far,

Compression is excellent. Static rpm has been consistent. Bore scope-valves couldn't look better. I'll check valve lift. Spark plugs are perfect.

The airplane seems perfect climbing out at 90-100 @ 2550-2600 rpm with absolutely no vibration. Its not until I push over into cruise that vibration starts when rpm drops below 2600 and I can mostly feel it in the rudder peddles.

Again. If this vibration was not a "change" I probably would have lived with it? Indeed it wasn't until Dave Baxter's vibration thread surfaced that I took note of my own issue.

Of coarse finding metal in my oil makes ANYTHING unusual or different something to take seriously. OTOH the trend is LESS metal not more which seems odd if the engine is "making metal" rather than coughing up old crap?

I looked at the Lord mounts and they "look" fine, no sagging. As I recall they did seem hard when I hung the engine. No record on the mounts in the engine log(I don't have the aircraft logs) I agree swapping mounts is bad idea.

Anyway I'm treading water until I get the oil analysis. Too hot here to work except at night anyway...but I do.

Jack
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:46 AM   #12
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Default Replacing Dynafocal Lord mounts

Jack,

I'm just thinking out loud so to speak. But coukdnthe vibration be airframe and not engine related? Maybe a fairing is loose? Or wheel pants or? Tires?

On my Stinson 108-2 my partners changed the tires and didn't balance the new tires and tubes when they installed new ones. It was right done during a annual when we had the engine overhauled too. I took off for the first flight and it had a crazy vibration after I leveled off fro climb...until I applied brakes and it stopped. I don't recall it being notable on take off or climb (I was really paying attention to engine noises since it was first flight after a engine rebuild).

Anyway just thought of that. Maybe it's not engine related at all? I honestly don't see how the mounts could be it but they along with a lot of other things solved Daves so maybe?

I assume you've checked the bolts holding the engine to fuselage? There was a 450 Stearman that lost its mount because the use of hardware store soft washers were used on the bolts that attach mount to fuselage. They torqued bolts, flew awhile and the vibration made the washers flatten more and eventually there was a big enough looseness that it vibrated so bad the engine departed the plane in flight!

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Old 08-23-2017, 02:48 AM   #13
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"The airplane seems perfect climbing out at 90-100 @ 2550-2600 rpm with absolutely no vibration. Its not until I push over into cruise that vibration starts when rpm drops below 2600 and I can mostly feel it in the rudder peddles."

I may have missed it, but does the vibration continue in an idle rpm glide at cruise speed?

Maybe you have a tail wire vibrating at speeds above 90-100 mph.

Sorry if you have already discussed the glide question, but it jumped out at me reading the above quote to ask about the cruise speed glide.

I was typing while Lotahp1 sent his so didn't see it, but we seem to be on the same line of thought.
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:20 AM   #14
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Maybe a bingo but I doubt it? This was my first mount build and I did use big AN washers rather than making them out of 4130 which I would do on the next one. Not hardware store but certainly softer than 4130 (And NOT a R985 either). Something to check for sure b ut I'd be surprised if it's loose.

Vibration stops in a power off glide. Vibration occurs with RPM between about 2200 and 2600.

Seems engine related and not airframe.



Thanks,

Jack
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:05 PM   #15
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For your comfort Jack, I doubt using AN washers is an issue. The S-1S mount drawing calls for "Commercial Grade Galv. Steel Washer" 1" OD x .080" thick. Very odd choice given having to deal the the Galvanized plating but certainly not anything special in the material for the washer. AN washers are a little thinner but they're only mild steel as I recall.
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:18 PM   #16
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Jack,

Didn't mean to scare ya. But that Stearman deal was such a issue I believe all 450 Stearmans have a AD or SB about checking the washers. Just thinking out loud and hadn't heard if you've checked holt tightness there yet so just thought I'd share.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:42 AM   #17
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Humm, strange that at climb there is no vibration. But only when you level her
and pull back power. Do you have the vibration when you are level and have WOT?
Also do you have the vibration at climb speed when level, if not and you have vibration at
high speed then there is a start. Do you have anything in the engine that balances it?
Maybe something inside the engine broke loose and only shows up in level flight.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:03 PM   #18
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Engine mount is still tight.


Dennis, Too many questions and not enough answers?

100 mph slow flight @ 2000 rpm is pretty smooth. Vibration seems more rpm related rather than airspeed.

I forget what I get WOT I'll have to look but it either 2800 or 2900 rpm and 150-160 mph? It relatively smooth but considering that there might be a engine issue is scary.


Bottom line. I've been chasing my tail so I'm starting over. First is get the oil analysis kit(should get here today) and get results. I'll then decide what to do next?

Jack

Meanwhile I'm keeping an eye out for another engine but might throw in the towel if this engine is finished.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:53 AM   #19
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Here are two pictures of a tool a friend made to hold and compress the engine vibration mounts while bolting the engine up. John claims this tool makes installing new vibration mounts a 30 minute job. Sounds optimistic to me but he made the tool.

Best of luck,

Wes


mount_tool.jpg   Mount_tool_use.jpg  
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