The Biplane Forum > Biplane Technical Forums > Firewall Forward & Fuel System > Lycoming & Continental > Angle Valve or Parallel...



Help Support Biplane Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-17-2011, 02:17 AM   #1
Beej
Creator of this place
BiP_ADMIN.png
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 5,643
Liked 622 Times on 356 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

Sometime next summer I will be looking for an IO-360 angle valve. This was what I had always planned. I wanted the 200 HP. I am now wondering if an IO-360 parallel valve model would suffice? 30 pounds lighter, and with tuned exhaust and perhaps cold air induction, they can get to 200hp, right? Engine gurus please advise...
cheers



Beej is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 03:15 AM   #2
darylat8750
Registered Users
 
darylat8750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: laramie, wy, usa
Posts: 2,176
Liked 91 Times on 73 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Send a message via MSN to darylat8750
Default

Come on Beej, go for the 390!



darylat8750 is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 03:36 AM   #3
Neil
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Monroe, LA Work at F89 Winnsboro, LA
Posts: 5,865
Liked 781 Times on 589 Posts
Likes Given: 269

Default

I have a personal preference for the parallel valve engines. Seem to have fewer issues and they fit in the cowling better. 3,000rpm =200hp or there about.

I've flown behind a 390 and I gotta admit, it makes some good power.
Neil is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 10:15 AM   #4
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 5,487
Liked 2650 Times on 1258 Posts
Likes Given: 3756

Default



yes, you should be able to get to right around 200 hp with a parallel valve, withj forward facing cold air, tuned exhaust and 9:1 pistons. you could go more on the comp ratio, but you should have a balanced crank and youll shorten your time to overhaul. this is how im planning on setting up mine.....

Edited by: smizo
smizo is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 01:05 PM   #5
Carlyle
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Carlyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cromer Manitoba Canada
Posts: 292
Liked 23 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

The experimental engine shop here in Manitoba advises to stay away from the angle valve if you plan on running it to higher RPM as the valves will float at a lower RPM than a parralel valve. The angle valve is more suited for aconstant speed prop. The extra wieght and width are a draw back as well. I like the looks of the parallel408 that Superior is working on. It's much lighter than the angle 400 they tried a few years ago. That said the shop I spoke of has a new Superior 400 for sale. He will let it go for a bargin if anyone wants it.
Carlyle is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 01:10 PM   #6
cashflyer
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,096
Liked 319 Times on 195 Posts
Likes Given: 40

Default

Parallel valve 360 is lighter than angle valve 360, and can certainly produce the 200hp you desire - giving you a better PWR.
cashflyer is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 01:32 PM   #7
Beej
Creator of this place
BiP_ADMIN.png
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 5,643
Liked 622 Times on 356 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

so, can the angle valve be similarly modded for extra HP? I also read somewhere that the angle 200HP is really more like 186HP in reality..?
Beej is offline  
 
Old 12-17-2011, 02:30 PM   #8
darylat8750
Registered Users
 
darylat8750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: laramie, wy, usa
Posts: 2,176
Liked 91 Times on 73 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Send a message via MSN to darylat8750
Default


It's my understanding that the angle valve cools easier than the parallel valve but I don't know if that is really an issue. If not going for a 390 (I just keep pushing that because I want a ride behind one someday [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]) I would lean toward a parallel valve. If there is a way to build larger displacement with the parallel valve that should be considered. I would either use a low enough compression ratio so I could run car gas or pump it up to at least 9 to 1. I would certainly build the fuel system so that car gas could be used. That way when 100 oct gets hard to find you would only have to change the pistons and re-tune for car fuel.


darylat8750 is offline  
 
Old 12-18-2011, 02:34 AM   #9
Carlyle
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Carlyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cromer Manitoba Canada
Posts: 292
Liked 23 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

I spoke with Bart Lalond at Aero Sport Power in Kamloops BC a few years ago when I was engine shopping. He could build up a parallel valve 404 ci that would produce at least230 hp. The crankshaft was very pricey as itwas a one off machining job.
Carlyle is offline  
 
Old 12-18-2011, 02:38 PM   #10
darylat8750
Registered Users
 
darylat8750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: laramie, wy, usa
Posts: 2,176
Liked 91 Times on 73 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Send a message via MSN to darylat8750
Default

"The crankshaft was very pricey as itwas a one off machining job."

Do you know how many of these modifications are in service? This may be a very cool deal if the crankshaft will hold up...


darylat8750 is offline  
 
Old 12-18-2011, 05:51 PM   #11
Carlyle
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Carlyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cromer Manitoba Canada
Posts: 292
Liked 23 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

He didn't say how many he had built. The experimental world is pretty small up here in Canada. I would describeBartas our Canadian version of Monty Barret. He wouldn't build something that wasn't going to stand up. I wouldn't be as concered about the crank as I would be about top end life. The stroke would be over 4.75" and with that kind of piston speed it would be hard on rings. New rings and a hone are cheap if you dont mine a little extra maintenace. As with any enginebuilder Bart doesn't like the high RPM that many of us fixed pitch pilotsrev to and this would be a real concern with a 404 stroker. I just looked up Superiors new 408. Ithas a stroke of 4.95". Yikes!! Edited by: Carlyle
Carlyle is offline  
 
Old 12-19-2011, 04:00 AM   #12
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,765
Liked 479 Times on 375 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default


Unless you can afford a custom billet crank to build up the stroke, it is welded.
It is a special MIG welder that uses iron filings to shield the weld. Common in auto machine work.
Edited by: TFF1
TFF1 is offline  
 
Old 12-19-2011, 10:47 AM   #13
Xavier
Registered Users
 
Xavier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 379
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Send a message via MSN to Xavier
Default

I'm personaly thinking about the Aerosport power IO375 parallel valve, either with low comp to be able to run Mogas or hi comp i.o.t. reach over 200hp.I had asked a few questions to them about the weight, cost, and efficiency of this engine some time ago. ASP proved really helpful; I can forward you or post those mails on the forum if you're interested. A few of them are installed on aerobatic airplanes from what the site says...
http://www.aerosportpower.com/docs/o...ine%20info.pdf

Xav
Xavier is offline  
 
Old 10-18-2017, 03:10 AM   #14
AC_KK
ac-aero
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
AC_KK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 17
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default IO-428RS 260bhp

4 cylinder RS engine ticking along nicely IO-428RS
www.ac-aero.com
AC_KK is offline  
 
Old 10-18-2017, 03:31 AM   #15
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,444
Liked 841 Times on 669 Posts
Likes Given: 603

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC_KK View Post
4 cylinder RS engine ticking along nicely IO-428RS
www.ac-aero.com

I'm waiting for the V12
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17
EAABipe40FF is offline  
AC_KK Likes This 
Old 10-18-2017, 03:54 AM   #16
crankyklingon
 
crankyklingon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Springfield Ga
Posts: 1,613
Liked 650 Times on 421 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Well... I'll tell ya what. All BS aside you can lighten the angle valve motor a bit by using a crank that doesn't use counterweights.
A lightweight starter and B&C alternator are a given.
They make awesome power in stock trim. I've turned mine 3600 with no valve problems.
They can be had reasonably if you can stand the D mag from a Mooney donor.
I'm into mine for 15,000 including machine work and core engine.
Haters gonna hate...
__________________
Rob
crankyklingon is offline  
 
Old 10-18-2017, 04:13 AM   #17
AC_KK
ac-aero
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
AC_KK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 17
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default IO-428RS 260bhp

I have uploaded some photos for you all
AC_KK is offline  
 
Old 10-18-2017, 11:54 AM   #18
AC_KK
ac-aero
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
AC_KK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 17
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

pic of the IO-428RS on the bench


IO-428RS.jpg  
AC_KK is offline  
 
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hybrid Angle/Parallel engine S111B Lycoming & Continental 10 02-12-2012 01:03 AM
Angle valve 10:1 piston Optima200 Firewall Forward & Fuel System 10 02-11-2012 09:20 PM
Lyc angle valve crossover Dennis Flamini Classifieds 0 08-27-2011 01:24 PM
S1S with angle valve and cs prop invert33 Pitts 1 11-17-2010 02:35 AM
ECI new angle Valve cylinders S111B Lycoming & Continental 0 05-03-2010 01:41 AM