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Old 04-16-2012, 03:23 PM   #1
N6808M
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Default Starduster Two concerns??

Hello-

I have recently acquired a Starduster Two and I am curious if there is anything I need to keep an eye on either in flight, or on the ground. i.e. Flight characteristics or structural concerns.

Thanks!
Jason



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Old 04-16-2012, 04:59 PM   #2
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Sorry, not tips here...but that's a fine looking Duster!

Congrats!



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Old 04-17-2012, 01:51 AM   #3
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A very nice looking Starduster. I would suggest that you cover those gear legs, you will pick up some speed.

Danny

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Old 04-17-2012, 02:42 AM   #4
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wow....where to start. let's mention the big 3 (imho). #1. weight and balance. it is easy to exceed the aft cg limit, depending on pilot weight, engine size and engine mount length. even if the wt/balance was recently done, I would recommend doing it yourself or have it done under your purview. #2. location of wheel axles in relation to firewall. in the level attitude, early SD2s had the axles in vertical line with the firewall. design change later moved the axles approx 8 inches aft of the firewall. the difference being in ground handling i.e. taking weight off the tailwheel. #3. while it will do some level of acro depending on pilot skills, the designer Lou Stolp always said and wrote that it was designed as a sport biplane, not an aerobatic biplane. if built correctly and rigged properly, it is a very stable and easy flying airplane, in the air or on the ground. you need to hook up with Dave Baxter if you have not already. he can probably tell you specific things about this (your) airplane.

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Old 04-17-2012, 03:05 AM   #5
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Covering the I-struts would probably help you speed the airplane up a little as well.

Nice airplane!

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Old 04-17-2012, 12:14 PM   #6
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Default Thank you!

Thanks guys for the input. I plan on covering the gear and the I struts. May I ask who Dave Baxter is?

Thanks!
JN

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Old 04-17-2012, 12:21 PM   #7
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Dave quite simply is the historian of and the most experienced Starduster guy out there. he frequents this board as well as the Starduster/Acroduster forum on Aircraft Spruce web site. as a new SD guy, you should be familiar with and make use of that forum site also.

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Old 04-17-2012, 03:31 PM   #8
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Nice looking airplane.

I see a lot of shiny metal. Are the I struts and aileron connectors chromed or polished?

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Old 04-17-2012, 04:42 PM   #9
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He's also not too far from you. He's in the Vancouver, WA area.

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Originally Posted by N6808M View Post
Thanks guys for the input. I plan on covering the gear and the I struts. May I ask who Dave Baxter is?

Thanks!
JN
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:04 AM   #10
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I have just gotten back on this site, With the help of Beej I have been unable to log in ever since the big change I was beginning to think that I was not welcome here as all of my E- Mails were ignored, and if not for John Beej Nun I would still be lurking!

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Old 04-18-2012, 06:07 AM   #11
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Dave, 'glad we got the glitch fixed for you....

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Old 04-18-2012, 06:47 AM   #12
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Jason Sorry I have not gotten back to you. So how long have you had this airplane, and how many hrs have you flown it so far? What are your concerns so far? Looks like a nice airplane, the two main problems with older Stardusters were weight and balance do to the early short motor mounts generally leaving one in the aft end of the C G with minimum fuel and even out of the C G range! And what I call the old style landing gear, raked to far forward making the tail really heavy and if one has gear geometry issues in that both wheels are not going the same direction as the rest of the airplane one can be investigating parts of the airport you have never seen before! Up close! Dave

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Old 04-21-2012, 01:19 PM   #13
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Default Starduster Too available....

Hello everyone,

I have located a Too, but was somewhat disappointed that it has only the bottom ailerons. Since Iam somewhat acquainted with the type I know I don't have the time or knowledge to install the upper ailerons.

Question: How much difference does the lack of ailerons on the top wing make? Crispness of maneuvers etc??

Dave Baxter: Phil Hax has told me about you so you know I am looking for a Duster. Thanks for being the resident guru!!

BTW, a couple of guys are assembling an older Duster locally with a Jake in it!!

Biplanes forever!

Roy

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Old 04-21-2012, 07:32 PM   #14
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Default Ailerons Lower Wing Only

Roy I like everyone else, have an opinion and my opinion is that having only two ailerons on just the lower wings only compromises the delightful flying qualities of this airplane!

There are advantages and disadvantages. The Starduster Too leaves a lot to be desired even with four ailerons, But the control harmony balance and pressures along with initial roll rate, in my opinion with the four aileron system is superior than with just the Two lower ailerons, and they ( Lower Ailerons Only ) are not all built the same, many are different sizes inboard and outboard length have been increased or both and many have different control arm lengths and bell crank arrangements!. Thus making them less effective.

The advantage with ailerons only on the lower wing, are not having to build all of the hardware and ailerons for the upper wing which makes the airplane lighter easier and quicker to build. Also as others have stated their are more problems with four ailerons and slave strut rigging configuration. I do not see this as a big problem.

All of the airplanes I have flown that have ailerons on the lower wing only, require more stick pressure, force ( Heavier Ailerons ) than the four aileron system. Marks Airplane in the air with spades did fly much like mine in feel and response however when slipping and during the the flair in ground effect prior to touch down it was different and not as effective as the four aileron version. There is just something about having ailerons on the upper wing as well as the lower in ground effect that makes them superior in my opinion especially in a stiff cross wind

I am no aeronautical engineer or test pilot and can only speak from my experience as a laymen having flown both. My airplane has 2430 hrs on it as we speak and I have successfully flown over 25 other Stardusters and have over 2600 hrs in them. Does this make me an expert? By no means, I have learned something from all and have been humbled by several, including my own!

Many of those back in the good old days that decided to go with ailerons on the lower wings only did so because they claimed they were not aerobatic pilots or interested in acro and therefore assumed that just lowers would be adequate for most flying and one might argue the point!

I would have to agree with this statement. However as a practical matter how about cross winds? With the four aileron configuration you have much more cross wind control authority and this airplane can be successfully landed in a substantial cross wind, and why do all of the aerobatic biplanes have four ailerons? If it were not a better or more effective system the Pitts would still have ailerons on just the lower wings!

So before some of you guys take exceptions or hammer me this is again, "only my opinion" and if I was building or buying a Starduster Too I would definitely want four ailerons!

Roy my offer to you would be to come to Portland Oregon and fly my airplane and I am sure that my friend Mark would up in Washington state be happy to fly with you in his airplane and that way you can make a real world comparison. But remember his has spades and is the only one I have ever seen that does. By the way, of the 650 or so Starduster Toos built about two dozen have ailerons on the lower wing only.

Private Message me with your phone number and best time to call as I would love to chat with you about this or any other questions you might have about this airplane. My goal in mouthing off is to help others so that they enjoy there airplane and not get hurt, physically or financially . Dave
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:07 PM   #15
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Default Radial Powered Stardusters

Roy I hope the guys working on a Jake powered Duster make it work at least one has more power with the Jake. Most do not fly well and are a handful some look really good and others never seem to capture the essence of the round power bi plane image!

One that comes to mind is Kevin's N459KS it is a beautiful airplane, but I do not think it fly's like he assumed it would.

The other is Paul's old airplane wrecked do to engine failure on the coast several yrs ago sold as salvage and now rebuilt flying and for sale on Barnstormers! Not nearly as attractive but his is a much better flier! Dave

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Old 07-22-2012, 08:07 AM   #16
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Default Lower Ailerons Only

Hi Dave,

I have been offline for much of this year due to computer and business issues, but for others benefit I thought I would just offer my experience with having lower ailerons only.

I have owned my Starduster Too for 6 years now. It has only lower ailerons, and I must say that I love this airplane. To me it is a wonderful feel. I do not fly hard acro, but it is totally capable of doing most everything. I have not flown other Stardusters to compare the feel, but I have flown a four aileron Acroduster. Of course my Duster is not as responsive as that, but I think it is a fine setup for the type of flying I like. I have noticed that the single ailerons are larger that those on four aileron airplanes.

Blue Skies All...

Bill

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Old 10-25-2012, 10:10 AM   #17
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Hello, I just bought Starduster Too (serial no 001) and have imported it to Thailand. Registration will be HS-DOG. The DCA here requires that we submit the plans for constructing the plane. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the plans for building the Starduster Too? Thank you, TOM -- tom@claytor.com

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Old 10-25-2012, 12:05 PM   #18
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Starduster plans are available from Aircraft Spruce www.aircraftspruce.com or you might find a previously purchased set on this forum or www.aircraftspruce.com/forums look under Starduster/Acroduster group. be advised what you have purchased may not resemble the plans you obtain in some ways. the plans changed over the years with modifications and/or the builder of your particular plane may have made his own changes from the plans he had at the time.



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