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Old 09-15-2017, 11:38 AM   #76
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thanks guys, ok....... need school on the immelman. now ive been told to fly it two different ways by two very experienced comp pilots. is the maneuver supposed to be a half loop immediately followed by a half roll, or are you supposed to start the roll before you reach the top of the loop. I always flew it as a half loop then half roll but was told then it appears as 2 separate elements. anyways, whats the proper way to fly it? I know about the spin, halfway through I said to myself what the f..... are you doing? just totally boned it. ive been trying to get power back in as rotation starts to get a cleaner stop and just blew this. no idea why I unloaded the elevator and added aileron because it did exactly as you said, it spiraled. it really spins well. just gotta get the brain make it do that. not gonna get too carried away with the 45 lines until I can get some ground work and a sight on it. will take your comments on line length and humpty pulls and work on that..... thanks!


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Old 09-15-2017, 12:48 PM   #77
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Here's what the rule book says about immelmans:

The half-loop followed by a roll is also flown with no line
between the half-loop and roll. Drawing a line requires a
downgrade in accordance with 8.4.2(c). Should the roll begin
before the half-loop is completed, the judge must downgrade
the figure one (1) point for every five (5) degrees of half-loop on
which the roll was performed (Fig 8.5.16).


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Old 09-15-2017, 01:24 PM   #78
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Thanks Cameron. next flight ill work on some of this stuff then run it again.......
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:05 PM   #79
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How the Immelman is flown and appears from the ground depends partly on aircraft performance. An underpowered slow rolling airplane like a Citabria will have a difficult time flying a half loop and then starting the roll at the apex of the loop. Due to the slow roll rate, there will likely appear to be an inserted line between the end of the half loop and the start of the roll, as well as the fact that an airplane like this will have trouble flying a perfect half level roll from such low airspeed without settling during the roll. So airplanes like this will benefit from cheating and rolling a little early. The higher the aircraft performance and roll rate, the less of an issue this becomes. You want to show the judges a round half loop while avoiding the appearance of an inserted line, but also fly a level flight path during the roll.

You will only sort this out in your airplane with help from the ground. Your airplane may be able to get away with rolling slightly early on top. The other thing you can do to make it look better is to accelerate your pitch rate a few degrees before reaching the apex of the loop, and quickly popping the stick forward to set the inverted line while simultaneously starting the roll. Accelerating the pitch rate gives a more clear indication of the end of the looping segment so that the judges don't perceive an inserted line on top. But you must be careful not to increase your pitch rate too early and show a clear change in radius ("pinching") on top. It's the same technique that helps clearly define the end of the 5/8 loop on the Cubans as well. Accelerate your pull that last few degrees and sharply pop the stick forward to set the line. If you lazily set the line, the judges will have trouble seeing exactly where the looping segment ends and the line begins. This may give the appearance of a longer line before the roll than you are actually flying.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:22 PM   #80
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My only critique is edit your videos so I don't have to weed through it for the "highlights" .....if there are any.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:28 PM   #81
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Takes too much effort.......... I'm lazy
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:29 PM   #82
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For a sledge hammer mechanic, he's doing well to figure out the on button on the camera.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:33 PM   #83
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Hey..... and I also figured out how to link it to my phone so now I can turn it on from the cockpit eliminating the annoying taxi and warm up time........ winning!
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:53 PM   #84
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Windows Movie Maker makes short work of editing videos.
It's usually included with Windows.
Looking good Chris, keep after it.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:11 PM   #85
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I could do it on IMovie on my mac, and gopro has very easy editing software..... but then id have to put music to it and everything and then these guys would be crying cause they don't want to listen to my death metal and just want to hear the engine run.

Maybe when I actually get some worthwhile video ill edit something together.......
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:04 PM   #86
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Great, another one carrying a phone in the cockpit during akro. I guess we tend to learn better the hard way...........

What's the status of your sighting device? Even if it's not set up perfectly there's value in getting used to using it. Setting lines to a reference isn't as straight forward as you'd think for some people but I have no idea why. I once asked someone to fly some verticals in my S-1 so I could confirm the setup and all I got was a series zig-zags on a roughly vertical path.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:20 PM   #87
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I had no problem flying lines in the extra with the sight. Can't install one till I sell the baby ace with how they fit in the hanger. The nose of the ace is right behind the left I strut. I usually just sit on my phone, never had a problem......
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:25 AM   #88
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Oh yeah, the Baby Ace. If I was a foot shorter I'd solve that problem for you.

Just please be careful with the phone or anything else that might be able to escape captivity. If you're triggering the camera with the phone it may have a plan for freedom when you're not looking.
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Old 09-16-2017, 01:12 AM   #89
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Yea I was only getting a rise outta you. The phone is zipped in a pouch with the aircraft docs. Safe and sound
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:51 AM   #90
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Chris,
i was having the same problems with the spin. We tuffed the lower wing and added 14" long stall strips just outside prop arc. i also have been pulling the stick back fairly fast after 60mph and use both hands holding the stick fully aft in the spin.
Stall strips are 3/4 x 3/4 wood or aluminum angle Scotch sailplane tapped a little below center of nose rib radius.
i also think fairings on the stab would help but i don't have enough time before the Nationals to install them.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:49 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyHolt View Post
My only critique is edit your videos so I don't have to weed through it for the "highlights" .....if there are any.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:08 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smizo View Post
.... but then id have to put music to it and everything and then these guys would be crying cause they don't want to listen to my death metal and just want to hear the engine run.

Maybe when I actually get some worthwhile video ill edit something together.......
When you do get to the music, I would like to request some Styx...To Much Time On My Hands.

Keep it up, I'm enjoying your adventure!


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