The Biplane Forum > General Discussion > Hangar Talk > BFR in a Stearman



Help Support Biplane Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2017, 12:46 AM   #1
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,774
Liked 1388 Times on 1037 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default BFR in a Stearman

I'm now legal and current again for the first time since about 2005. I could have just done a local flight in a C-172 but that had zero appeal and pretty much zero chance of awakening old skills. So I went up to Winter Haven to fly with Tim Preston in his stock 220 Stearman. I had never been in a Stearman prior to yesterday morning so it was an added treat for me.

We flew 1.2 hours yesterday and it was plenty for me because despite having the pedals all the way forward and the seat all the way down I was cramped in that rear seat. We did some air work and 5 landings most of which were less than wonderful for one or more reasons -- mainly because I couldn't bring myself to get the nose up high enough to make a three point touch down. This morning we did 4 more landings. With the rest and an overnight think on what I did not do well both the takeoffs and the the landings were much improved. Tim also took the seat back cushion out and that made me much more comfortable and I'm sure that helped with my results today.

Tim said I was good after those 4 landings today and I'm now legal for two years. I really enjoyed the experience and Tim and Peggy are great folks. As for the Stearman,,, well it's very different than any other airplane I have flown. It's fairly blind, no big deal except that the landing attitude is very nose high. It's also under-powered so you have to have some patience and finesse to get the most out of what's available. Directional control on the ground is easy due to the powerful rudder -- as long as you can deal with the lack of forward visibility. I am glad I choose to do my BFR this way rather than finding a more familiar airplane to fly. Actually I tried to get this done in a SuperD but it didn't work out. I wish someone closer had been an option but I guess tailwheel instruction is getting increasingly rare. It's worth seeking it out and straying from your comfort zone.


__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
10
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 01:02 AM   #2
Cameron
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Cameron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,087
Liked 567 Times on 344 Posts
Likes Given: 215

Send a message via MSN to Cameron
Default

They are fun airplanes. I get to fly one locally every now and then. It's a stock 220hp airplane too. Gives you a whole new respect for what John Mohr used to do in his Stearman airshow routine.


__________________
Owner/Builder of a Christen Eagle II
http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=9575
Cameron is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 01:06 AM   #3
crankyklingon
 
crankyklingon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Springfield Ga
Posts: 1,608
Liked 649 Times on 420 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Good to hear Bill.
I did my tailwheel training with Tim in the cub. 4.5 and he said I was ready to take on the AcroSport.
I had to trust his judgement.
Oh, and you think you were uncomfortable? Think of him all balled up in the front seat of that Cub!
I really enjoyed my experience with Tim and Peggy, they have a first class operation going there.
I may try the Stearman next, it was helpful to hear of your experience!
__________________
Rob
crankyklingon is offline  
flybiplane Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 01:27 AM   #4
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Chicago Acrosport 2 Pitts S-1S
Posts: 1,962
Liked 693 Times on 433 Posts
Likes Given: 971

Default

Bill,
How old are you?
i just signed up for the Nationals and was sure i would be the oldest at 74 but Giles has me beat by one year!
https://www.iac.org/2017-us-nationals-registrations
__________________
Dennis near Chicago
How can you not be romantic about biplanes.
If your Father is poor it's fate, if your Father-in-law is poor it's stupidity
Wilbur Wright said he "did not have time for both a wife and an airplane."
Which is the better portion -- bondage bought with a ring,
Or a harem of dusky beauties, fifty tied in a string?
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 01:43 AM   #5
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,774
Liked 1388 Times on 1037 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

As far as I can tell, what John Mohr does in that Stearman is humanly impossible.

Rob, I like Tim's approach to instruction. He starts off with plenty to say both as information and suggestion. When you're starting to improve he gets quiet mainly to see if you were listening. Today for the last flight he had very little to say. His timing was perfect.

I figured it would take about three hours to check out given the state of my eroded skills and the airplane's reputation for being 'difficult' so I was happy it only took 1.8 hours for Tim to bless me. I highly recommend flying the Stearman next time and also getting some S-2 time for the akro side of things as the Pitts will be a closer match to your airplane.
__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
flybiplane Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 01:45 AM   #6
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,774
Liked 1388 Times on 1037 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Flamini View Post
Bill,
How old are you?
i just signed up for the Nationals and was sure i would be the oldest at 74 but Giles has me beat by one year!
https://www.iac.org/2017-us-nationals-registrations
I'll be 65 in a couple of months. On thhe other end of the scale -- when I flew the Nationals the first time I was 19.
__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 02:06 AM   #7
jmorgan
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 174
Liked 44 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 92

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilliamrose View Post
when I flew the Nationals the first time I was 19.
I'm 24...what the hell am I doing with my life? I need to get with it.
jmorgan is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 02:56 AM   #8
Dennis5678
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 442
Liked 36 Times on 34 Posts
Likes Given: 931

Default

jmorgan,
Just 24. You are just getting started. What is your pilot experience?
Have you finished College? What about the Military?
Now is the time to prepare yourself for the future.
__________________
Dennis McGuire
Jacksonville FL ( Birth place of the Pitts )
Dennis5678 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 04:50 AM   #9
pigpenracing
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
pigpenracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brenham Texas
Posts: 2,000
Liked 484 Times on 282 Posts
Likes Given: 485

Default

Jmorgan
Bring your ass to Brenham and do some flying with me!
pigpenracing is offline  
jmorgan Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 05:00 AM   #10
grassroots
Premium Member
 
grassroots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 1,652
Liked 872 Times on 477 Posts
Likes Given: 208

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilliamrose View Post
As far as I can tell, what John Mohr does in that Stearman is humanly impossible.
Yep, if you consider just the maneuvers alone, John was simply displaying good basic aerobatic skills...good, but nothing fancy and nothing incredible. But what I found most impressive about his flying was not so much the maneuvers themselves, but his ability to operate right at the surface consistently and safely for years on end in varying conditions. But he had just a little Stearman time.

I got my first J-3 time with Tim about 15 years ago while I happened to be in FL. Glad he's still at it.
__________________
Pitts S-1S

Last edited by grassroots; 08-12-2017 at 05:03 AM.
grassroots is offline  
flybiplane Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #11
PittsDriver68
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NH
Posts: 3,661
Liked 954 Times on 684 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

A John Mohr story. A neighbor was a captain at the same airline that John Mohr flew for. Once upon a time they were paired for their 6-month recurrency check. They climbed into the sim and Mohn was first up to be the pilot flying. My neighbor reports that Mohr put the throttles forward on the simulated Boeing, lifted off, accellerated with the gear coming up, and rolled it. "Flew" away to do the rest of the simulated flight. Of course, my neighbor then had to try the same thing. Crashed the sim. Oh well.

Mr Mohr is most certainly the real deal.

Best of luck,

Wes
PittsDriver68 is offline  
Kiwi Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 08:52 PM   #12
Lotahp1
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Lotahp1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,550
Liked 669 Times on 482 Posts

Default

Is John Mohr still flying? I think I remember hearing he retired from airshows? The Stearman...in any form is THE best airshow plane...at least for the spectators. Maybe it's heavy and doesn't do things like a Pitts, but it's got the look and the sound (450 especially!) people look and want to hear. Plus it's size helps all see it. If I could, I'd run away and buy a 450 Stearman or 600 (really like the "Ghost Ship") and barnstorm the US. AHHHHH don't ya love rainy, day dream days? 😁
Lotahp1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 10:35 PM   #13
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,774
Liked 1388 Times on 1037 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Peggy sent a few photos of the adventure;
DSC_1741a.JPG   DSC_1763a.JPG   DSC_1813a.JPG   DSC_1814a.JPG   DSC_1817a.JPG  

__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
6
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 11:49 PM   #14
toobuilder
Registered Users
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 158
Liked 60 Times on 47 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

I'll consider the Stearman next time, but I went a different direction on the last...

I did mine in my dirt simple '40 T-craft. This is the same airplane my dad owned when I was a little kid and was the first "little" airplane ride I ever had. Dad sold it in '75 and I had not seen it again until April '16 when I bought it back. I lost dad back in '04, but still have his logbooks. I thought it would be neat to take a BFR in the same airplane he did his so many years ago.

BFR's don't have to be routine.

Last edited by toobuilder; 08-12-2017 at 11:51 PM.
toobuilder is offline  
Dennis5678 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 01:01 AM   #15
crankyklingon
 
crankyklingon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Springfield Ga
Posts: 1,608
Liked 649 Times on 420 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Who needs an RV grin when you can have a Stearman grimace!!
__________________
Rob
crankyklingon is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 05:46 AM   #16
jrs14855
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 1,437
Liked 267 Times on 205 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default John Mohr

John was featured in Twin and Turbine magazine within the last year, an article about his rare twin engine amphibian. Made in Italy in the 50's I think.
I don't come close to having the arm strength to roll the Stearman like he did.
__________________
jim stanton
jrs14855 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 05:53 AM   #17
jrs14855
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 1,437
Liked 267 Times on 205 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default John Mohr

John has a Piaggio P 136 Royal Gull. They were manufactured from 1949 to 1961. Most were powered by various models of the Lycoming GO 480.
__________________
jim stanton
jrs14855 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 06:38 PM   #18
jmorgan
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 174
Liked 44 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 92

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis5678 View Post
jmorgan,
Just 24. You are just getting started. What is your pilot experience?
Have you finished College? What about the Military?
Now is the time to prepare yourself for the future.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but just to answer the question I have about 200 hours, 25ish tailwheel about 5 of which is Pitts time the rest decathlon time, 15-20 multi time with a multi rating, almost IFR (need 3 more hours and a checkride).

Graduated as a mechanical engineer from Texas A&M a few years ago and will be graduating law school from University of Virginia in May, after which I will be working in Houston. My dad flew blackhawks in the army for years and I often regret not taking the military route for various reasons. Anyway, back to the thread...

I need to go see Joy down at Houston Southwest for some stearman time!
jmorgan is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 11:23 AM   #19
Taildragger
Registered User
 
Taildragger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Northern KY
Posts: 952
Liked 264 Times on 194 Posts
Likes Given: 555

Default

Wow. A Stearman. Nice. I did my high performance endorsement in one years ago and I have never enjoyed an airplane so much. I can't even describe it.

And Cameron you get access to one? Fly it! As much as you can. That is my biggest regret since I moved...only one Stearman flight. Don't do what I did.

It's just money...
__________________
—Samuel

“You mean to tell me you are building me a plane with only one wing?!?” —Waldo Pepper
Taildragger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 12:24 PM   #20
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

I think getting a BFR in a Stearman is neat. But with due respect living here in WV, I already know how to drive a PU truck. Years ago a buddy had one and we flew around and I thought it was really neat.....

Then I got a Pitts Special.
.
Sorry but I'm not interested in paying actual $ to fly a Stearman again. OTOH if anyone needs one ferried I'd be happy to do it as long as they pay for the gas and give me a ticket home.

That said I would like to try one with a 450 up front. (but I still suspect it's a truck?)

I do greatly admire anyone who does a good airshow with one. (Indeed I'd rather watch a good 450 Stearman airshow than an average Pitts)

But as far as flying one I'll take a Pitts or even my underpowered Acroduster 2-160 hp.

Jack
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 05:50 PM   #21
RickRice
Registered Users
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
RickRice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 330
Liked 165 Times on 87 Posts
Likes Given: 263

Default

Jack, comparing a Stearman to a Pitts is like comparing you're favorite catfish or BBQ joint to a fancy restaurant. One's not better than the other, they just serve different purposes.

I miss my Pitts. Not many days that I don't think about it and wish I could go cut up a little, but even when I had it, it didn't scratch all the itches. I got about 6 or 7 Stearman hours in the last month, but yesterday I flew the Cub. Still air, doors open, low and slow, just looking around. Few things as enjoyable, but a Stearman rumble, just before sunset, when you can see the exhaust flame and feel its heat, is just about perfect; nostalgic, romantic, fantastic!
RickRice is offline  
6
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 06:46 PM   #22
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

Maybe in some type of perfect world I'd have all of those and maybe throw in a AT6 and a P51.

But most of us must make choices and one hour in a PT17 translates into several hours in a Pitts. Now the J3, yea I could afford some of that

Jack
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 07:40 PM   #23
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

Bill,

After all the running of my mouth,

I envy you I did my BFR after 23 years out of the cockpit in a C150.

It got me back in the saddle but you got class!

Jack
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 07:49 PM   #24
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,774
Liked 1388 Times on 1037 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Jack,

I just couldn't bring myself to spend/waste any money flying a C-172 for the BFR. I figure any idiot could fly a C-172 and get a sign off but what I really needed, beyond the sign-off, was something to revive dormant skills. The Cessna was not going to get that job done. The truth is the airplane doesn't care about the sign off but it does respond to your skills -- if you still have any....

I'm envious of your time in the S-2C, that's on my list.


__________________
...........Bill

Project:Stretched Pitts S-1SS

cwilliamrose is offline  
Taildragger Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stearman JimC Classifieds 2 03-28-2017 11:07 PM
Stearman offgridman Hangar Talk 2 11-06-2016 03:15 AM
How fun is a Stearman? pigpenracing Hangar Talk 46 12-09-2014 10:09 PM
One less Stearman Guido Lepore Safety Forum 19 10-13-2014 01:17 PM
80% Stearman Beej Other Types 2 03-12-2008 07:11 PM