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Old 07-15-2017, 08:29 PM   #1
Dennis5678
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Default First AD2

Back in the 70's down at St Augustine Airport there was I think the
first AD2. It was painted maroon with white stripes. Wish had a photo of
Her. If I remember correctly the pilot I talked to said it was a hot bird not
for the novice pilot. Did they change the design after the the first one to
tame it down a bit. Or back in the 70's it was hot and now pilots have gained
the skills to fly her?
Just wondering if that was the first one built.
A little history would be nice on the AD2


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Old 07-15-2017, 10:48 PM   #2
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I don't know about the first one but mine is a *****cat.


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Old 07-15-2017, 10:56 PM   #3
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The first one N5462 was a one off airplane. It was involved in a fatal accident in the Cincinnati area in '07. You can find the story on Kathryn's report.(via google N number)
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:13 PM   #4
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Default Super Starduster Too N5462

Dennis, I think this might be the airplane you are talking about? It was the prototype for the Acroduster Too, referred to as the Super Starduster Too N5462, built by Morgan (Bud) Schrack and Starduster Corp in the early 70s owned and flown by Alan Campbell at the time you probably saw it in FL.

There were some changes by Jim Osborne, mostly to make it easier to build, I do not think it was any hotter or difficult to fly than any other similar biplane back then. The second company prototype N750X had the N series IO-540 260 HP, and was probably a bit more demanding, but pilot skill proficiency would easily be the difference, in my opinion.

After flying well over 25 different Stardusters, most with four cylinder Lycomings, and several 540s including my sons plus a 220 cont radial powered duster, along with a 200 hp, and a 540 Skybolt, all were a bit different as amateur built, but no big challenge, however add aerobatics, this can be a whole different matter?

N5462, was lost 4 or 5 yrs ago in KY fatal two engine was running poorly and quit on take off . Dave

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/0...h-mirrors.html
N5462 Allen Campbell 1.jpg   N5462 Allen Campbell 2.jpg   N5462 Proto type Acroduster Too.jpg   N5462 Super Starduser small.JPG   N5462.jpg  

N750X small.jpg  
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:20 PM   #5
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Point is maybe take what "hot" pilots tell you about their "hot" airplanes with a grain of salt!

With due respect to whoever that pilot might have been.

Jack
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:59 PM   #6
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Here is some reading on our loved but much doubted Acroduster's.

http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthre...t=14543&page=2
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:34 AM   #7
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Thanks, good reading that again. I'm looking forward to seeing your bird, I have a feeling it will be the best of the breed.

I may take you up on the prop balance? I'm @ 35:55:25 as of yesterday. The vibes aren't bad @ 2650 but are problematic @ 2400. I'm going to go over it carefully and if nothing found maybe I'll coax another 4 hours out of it and fly up to see you?

I have a question. How is the FG TD attached and what structure supports it? Thinking about it?

Regards,

Jack
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAABipe40FF View Post
Point is maybe take what "hot" pilots tell you about their "hot" airplanes with a grain of salt!

With due respect to whoever that pilot might have been.

Jack
I could not agree with you more.
I remember when the first Tripacer came out, it was considered a hot airplane.
The 47 Bonanza with 165 HP was only for the really "Hot Sticks".
I flew a 47 Bonanza ans it seemed to be really powerful.
I Bought a C Baron, the small fuselage with twin 285 HP engines. I went back and flew my old Bonanza and coulkdnot believe how week it was.
When I first taxied my IO540 Starduster, I thought I had made a mistake and it was overpowered. After a few flights it became a *****cat.
I now fly a 320 HP all carbon fiber monoplane and wish I could get twice that power!
After talking to me one day, my son said my motto should be "Too much Horsepower, is almost enough"! And now it is.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:13 PM   #9
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Back in my S1C days 40 years ago I think everyone except those who had flown them thought a Pitts pilot must be able to fly anything? Seriously, I had people offer me several airplanes I probably would have turned into a pretzel if I had strapped them on. I've slowed down and only need moderate excitement anymore. I do know one thing, 160 ponies is NOT quite enough for the AD2. It was hot yesterday and seemed to take forever to climb to a working height.

I made a low(legal) pass through the valley behind my house to wake-up Marcia. Dove down from 2000 agl at almost 180 and pulled back while adding full throttle. It ran out of steam at 1000 agl and continued in a pathetic 900 fpm. My next door neighbor was impressed but Marcia said later, "It looks good but it's not a Pitts is it?"

She should give it a break, the S1C weighed at least 200# less(and I weighed almost 100# less)

Oh well.

Anyone have a cheap IO360 for sale?

Frankly I'm more for light weight than HP. I got a check out for insurance in a S2C and wasn't impressed. Bill was being easy on it for obvious reasons, had me pull power back to 25" as soon as we were off the ground and with my butt up front we were likely at gross, but it seemed pretty tame whatever. That said it would be fun one up for sure.

Of coarse If I was true to my word I get serious and lose about 30#. But it's easier to eat that burger and tell Marcia to lose 5#. Ha, Ha. She's the same trim filly as when we were married 45 years ago.

Bottom line. My dream mount would be a 180 FP S2E. Get myself down to fighting weight , it would do all I need. Heck to be honest the 160 AD2 does well enough..... if you aren't in a hurry..

Sometimes I just need to stand back and pinch myself. I'm so lucky @ 70 to have two airplanes that I can still climb into. Both do well enough

Regards,

Jack
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:14 PM   #10
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You fancy gentlemen with your hotrod bipes. If I climb at 600 fpm, I wonder what very important part of my airplane might be missing to account for all that get-up-and-go.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:24 AM   #11
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When I was flying the J5A-75, Take off into the wind blowing over Knobly Mountain I would establish a hearty 400 fpm ROC only to get to 300' and start going down for a while. Felt like the engine stopped.....
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:53 PM   #12
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When I first started building airplanes, a 540 was much easier to get and cheaper than a 360.
At that time everyone was using the 360 and very few were using a 540.
Once people got used to the higher HP the 540 came up in price.
I still think the price of a 540 core is not much more than a 360.
I feel the extra HP makes for a safer airplane f you feel comfortable to use it.
I have had sever runway excursions that I was able to handle using full power with a 540 that I could not have handled with a weaker engine.
We had a 540 airplane that flew long distance with a 360 powered aircraft.
At every fuel stop, they used exactly the same amount of fuel.
Most people look at 65 percent power fuel burn to see what it's going to cost to fly a plane.
Wha is more important is miles per gallon od fuel use at a defined airspeed.
In the end the 540 will be equivalent to the 360
Where the 540 burns more is doing aerobatics. I drinks fuel , but the WOW factor is worth it!
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:53 PM   #13
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"The vibes aren't bad @ 2650 but are problematic @ 2400."

I believe you are running a Lyc 0-360 with a metal prop? The factory Pitts are redlined between 2150 and 2350 due to a harmonic between the prop and engine in that range. You can really feel it when you pass through it slowly. I wonder if your vibration issues are related to that.

Danny


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