The Biplane Forum > Biplane Builder's Forums > Acrosport > New to me Acro II - first looks and questions



Help Support Biplane Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-02-2017, 12:26 PM   #51
DLWilliams
Premium Member
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
DLWilliams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Liverpool, New York
Posts: 329
Liked 78 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Jeff, there used to be a mobile sand blasting company out of Auburn I think. Their card I believe is still stuck on one of the post it boards at EAA 486. I think they're self contained and self supporting from their vehicle. Might be worth looking into.
Dan


__________________
Dan W.
Liverpool, NY
Acrosport II - N396W
Acrosport II - S/N 1552 in progress
DLWilliams is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2017, 01:07 PM   #52
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Dan - Thanks for the info - I will check next time I'm up there. Now if this rain would just stop so I could pull it out and get the motor pickled... I don't really want to start ripping it apart until I've done that.

I have decided to pull the rudder for sure, the fabric is very loose on the bottom 1/3. Would be something small but representative I can take home and work on learning how to cover.

Since the weather sucks so bad lately, I've been pondering color schemes. Planning to leave the wings alone for now (so white) but not planning on keeping the whole thing white, and not planning on the traditional acrosport scheme.

I love Chris's design - the black really streamlines the look of the acro, and the striping makes it look much more modern. (the lack of front cockpit helps too...) Who did that design? Anyone know of any "airplane colorscheme design" tools for PC?


jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2017, 01:57 PM   #53
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

delete
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2017, 03:59 PM   #54
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

I found LOTS of companies with design services online. But I also found this:

http://www.airplanecolor.com/index.html

Which is for RC models but might be fun to play with.

And also this:
http://www.aircraftpaintschemes.com/
which is "pay first" so I have not looked.

I'm more a fan of Red or a darker color rather than white, so I'm leaning that way on the fuselage (keeping the white wings for now). Might wind up looking a lot like @EAABipe40FF, at least for while.
jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2017, 04:00 PM   #55
Randy
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nashville, Mich.
Posts: 1,485
Liked 57 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default New to me Acro II - first looks and questions

For what-it's-worth,
I just bought a 2 year old 80 gallon Ingersoll compressor for $625 off of Craigs list that puts out 18 CFM at 90 PSI and 21 CFM at 40 PSI. I mated it with a 20 gallon pressurized sand blasting tank I bought for $20 at an auction sale.
I blasted my complete AS 1 fuselage and tail assembly last week in less than 2 hrs. Yesterday I blasted a used boat trailer I am converting into a Kayak trailer.
I never had to stop blasting because of low air pressure although the pump did run almost constantly while I was blasting. All blasting was done outside and I used almost 3, 80 lb. bags of sand.
The only mod I made was to install a small fan to blow on the compressor cylinders that comes on with the compressor to keep it from over heating and goes off 3 minutes after the compressor shuts down on a time delay switch.

As a comparison, 20 years ago I hired a SkyBolt fuselage sand blasted by a company that came to my house, $370
__________________
Life is not measured by how many breaths you take but by the moments that take your breath away

Randy
Randy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 07:48 PM   #56
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

OK, a few updates. Went to the hangar last night with the intention of following Lycomings latest service letter and preserving the engine. Changed out the oil for Shell anti rust 20/50 and added the cortec additive. Added 4 gallons of 100LL to the tank, and hooked up a battery (boat battery) to try and see if I could make it turn over.

I could get it to spin, so I tried to "prime" it (this is an IO-360) with the wobble pump. No dice, air in the lines (had been drained). I bent over and pulled the gascolator off the wobble pump and heard "fsssss" letting the air out and... GAS... gas everywhere. Quick tried to thread that cup back in, and cant get the thing to start threading. Dammit.

Covered in gas, and BAM. My back goes out. I finally get the thing threaded in, and stop the gas (probably only 1pt of gas alltogether) and I can. Not. Get. Up.

Had to lie on the floor for about 30 mins, eventually propped myself up with the battery and a board and managed to close up the hangar and go home.

Will try again Saturday. Although the one A&P that looked at the plane with me last weekend said "I'd just pull the plugs and spin it with the starter till you get oil pressure, and repeat that a few times, then seal it up and call it good till spring".

Thoughts on the above statement?

Saturday's weather will be in the 40's, I have blocked off all air to both remote oil coolers. I planned to start it, run it at ~1200 till I see oil temps get off the peg, then run it at 2200 static until I get 180F or higher oil temps. Then shutdown, cool off, spray (chrome) cylinders with perservative oil, seal exhaust and intake with dessicant bags and plastic/tape.

Or just skip the runup? I've read if you cannot get it up to temp for ~20 mins, better to do nothing. (well no running anyway)
jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 08:56 PM   #57
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 5,436
Liked 2596 Times on 1234 Posts
Likes Given: 3688

Default

get some weight in the tail. I didn't run mine above 1500 without the wings on and yours is probably more nose heavy than mine with the stock mount and cs prop. the wings add a lot of aft weight when its in 3 point. and tie it to something that isn't going to move. sorry to hear about your back, I was waiting to read that you caught it on fire! spinning it up like mentioned would get op up but I would run it as suggested by Lycoming to be sure everything important is coated. since it hasn't run in some time, I would do his procedure before you start it anyways........
__________________
Chris Murley
Acrosport 2S N13XT
Wolf Aircraft Products / Griggs Aircraft
Tunkhannock, PA
smizo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 09:31 PM   #58
Larry Lyons
Registered Users
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Larry Lyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stockton, IL.
Posts: 3,409
Liked 788 Times on 604 Posts
Likes Given: 1427

Default

What Smizo said! Be very careful about running it with out wings, that's bad Jue Jue.
__________________
Larry Lyons
Rebuilt:
Smith Mini, flying
Taylorcraft, almost flying
and on going Taylorcraft project

In dog beers I've only had one!
Larry Lyons is offline  
Ryan Mactaggart Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 10:50 PM   #59
EAABipe40FF
Registered Users
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
EAABipe40FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Springfield, WV
Posts: 4,375
Liked 830 Times on 660 Posts
Likes Given: 579

Default

I don't think I could get 180 F oil temp on ground w/o CHT going off the peg?

Ditto caution about run-up w/o wings.

I can get 65 PSI oil pressure on my IO320 running on starter w/o top plugs. Be careful not to crank too long and ruin starter-follow directions.


Tie it short and DOWN! I made first start on the Spezio chocked with tail tied. Stupidly propped it by myself. Throttle was set a bit high -1200 rpm- and the airplane pivoted on the chocks/tail tie was loose enough that prop almost hit concrete. I would have been better off w/o wings-it took forever to get around to the throttle.

Many mistakes.........be careful! Mostly have help and carefully plan everything you do on an airplane.
__________________
Finished Spezio Tu-holer N92JM(Oct. 2011), AcroDuster 2- SA750 N22JM, first flight 12-14-15
2Cor5:17

Last edited by EAABipe40FF; 11-09-2017 at 10:59 PM.
EAABipe40FF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 12:35 AM   #60
Dana
Registered Users
 
Dana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 357
Liked 99 Times on 62 Posts
Likes Given: 36

Default

I'm in the same situation with my Starduster which I broke in my forced landing. My plan is to run the engine long enough to warm the oil, drain it (it was due for an oil change anyway), then refill it with the mixture of oil and preservative oil, run it long enough to coat everything, then seal it up with desiccant plugs. I think you really want to run it, not just crank it, so it turns fast and long enough to be sure the oil splashes all over and coats everything internally.
Dana is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 01:17 PM   #61
fjohnson
Forum Supporter
 
fjohnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 9
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts

Default Engine preserve

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrinker View Post
OK, a few updates. Went to the hangar last night with the intention of following Lycomings latest service letter and preserving the engine. Changed out the oil for Shell anti rust 20/50 and added the cortec additive. Added 4 gallons of 100LL to the tank, and hooked up a battery (boat battery) to try and see if I could make it turn over.

I could get it to spin, so I tried to "prime" it (this is an IO-360) with the wobble pump. No dice, air in the lines (had been drained). I bent over and pulled the gascolator off the wobble pump and heard "fsssss" letting the air out and... GAS... gas everywhere. Quick tried to thread that cup back in, and cant get the thing to start threading. Dammit.

Covered in gas, and BAM. My back goes out. I finally get the thing threaded in, and stop the gas (probably only 1pt of gas alltogether) and I can. Not. Get. Up.

Had to lie on the floor for about 30 mins, eventually propped myself up with the battery and a board and managed to close up the hangar and go home.

Will try again Saturday. Although the one A&P that looked at the plane with me last weekend said "I'd just pull the plugs and spin it with the starter till you get oil pressure, and repeat that a few times, then seal it up and call it good till spring".

Thoughts on the above statement?

Saturday's weather will be in the 40's, I have blocked off all air to both remote oil coolers. I planned to start it, run it at ~1200 till I see oil temps get off the peg, then run it at 2200 static until I get 180F or higher oil temps. Then shutdown, cool off, spray (chrome) cylinders with perservative oil, seal exhaust and intake with dessicant bags and plastic/tape.

Or just skip the runup? I've read if you cannot get it up to temp for ~20 mins, better to do nothing. (well no running anyway)
I'm in northern IN and I put my Acro away every fall with no preserving for 20 years. I overhauled the engine in '09 and was surprised how clean it was inside. Sure, some issues and slight pitting but on the normal stuff like camshaft, tappets and rocker shafts. Items you replace anyway. The only harsh time of the year I got moisture in the hangar was spring and it was brief.
I agree that anything you do can help. Just don't run the engine, fly it.
fjohnson is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 02:38 PM   #62
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,712
Liked 459 Times on 356 Posts

Default

Plug the exhaust, carb, and crankcase vent. Fill cylinders with oil. Depends on where cam is if it will hold some. If you take the engine off the fuselage, store upside down and add oil until cam is under oil.
TFF1 is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 06:18 PM   #63
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Went to a local chiropractor today (recommended by Kirk the airport owner who apparently has a bad back like I now have). Feeling some better. Gonna try to get back over there Sunday or Tuesday (supposed to be decent weather 45F). I'll see if I can get it started. If not I'll pull the plugs and spin it up to oil pressure a few times, pack it with desiccant and call it good for now. I don't think the prior owner ever did any of this in western MI, but he also flew it even in the winter when he could. (BRRR)

I might need to pull the motor anyway to do the restoration work I want to do, and if I do I'll do as suggested and invert it (or hell, just rotate it 360 degrees every couple months). Curious, can you mount a Lycoming on a harbor freight engine stand?
jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 08:46 PM   #64
ndlakesdreamer
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ND
Posts: 215
Liked 58 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

If it's an automotive stand your chances are less than zero of making it fit.
ndlakesdreamer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 10:24 PM   #65
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,712
Liked 459 Times on 356 Posts

Default

Rotating the engine scrapes the oil off as there is no oil pressure or splash, and can be worse than leaving it alone.
TFF1 is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2017, 04:35 PM   #66
IanJ
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
IanJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,349
Liked 220 Times on 167 Posts
Likes Given: 72

Send a message via MSN to IanJ
Default

I think he means physically revolving the whole case as opposed to rotating the crankshaft. But definitely, rotating the crank is a bad idea. Rotating the whole case seems like it would be an ok idea, though it would only help with stuff on the oily side of the pistons.
__________________
Marquart Charger MA-5 build: makin' ribs
1956 Champion 7EC, "Norbert"
IanJ is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2017, 10:56 PM   #67
Vintageav8r
Registered Users
 
Vintageav8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 65
Liked 40 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote jbrinker;"Curious, can you mount a Lycoming on a harbor freight engine stand?"

Yes. Simple. I glued two pieces of 3/4" plywood together to make one piece 1-1/5" thick. Drilled 8 holes; 4 for the engine stand and 4 that lined up to the aircraft engine mount. There was about 2-1/2" edge clearance on the engine mount bolts and the HF engine stand "legs" were arranged pretty close to the aircraft engine mount.This engine sat horizontally and was turned (like a rotisserie) during a PA-18 restoration.

Worked for me,
E
__________________
Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your face turned skyward.
Leonardo Da Vinci
Vintageav8r is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 01:03 AM   #68
TFF1
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,712
Liked 459 Times on 356 Posts

Default

Ah! I would still leave upside down so I did not have to go flip it. I would feel guilty if I did not make it out to do it, even if it might not matter. That and dropping it. As for an auto stand. I would not use a T shaped one where the wheels are. I would weld a cross bar and make it a 4 wheel stand so I did not drop it, when flipping. I almost lost a FE Ford; an airplane engine is half the weight but 5X the value. The FE might have made a hole to China.
TFF1 is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #69
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Whew... What a weekend. At least my back seems to be improving. I was going to go over today but had to work for my day job this weekend. Wednesday looks to be promising, and might break 50F. Here's my plan:

I got a 250W infared heat lamp. Lower cowl is off the plane, going to place the heat lamp about 1-2' below the oil pan and leave it on from Tuesday night until Wednesday about 2-3pm when I get there. Hoping that will keep it reasonably warm to start with. I'll hook up the battery and spin it up to get pressure. If things look good, I'll pull it out and tie it off to my truck. Will use my truck's mounted summer tires/rims as additional tie down weight in back, and also put my spare boat battery in the front seat. I have good wheel chocks for the wheels as well.

Then run it up keeping a sharp eye on the CHT. If that gets above 400 time to stop. I think I will just take it slow and see what I get to and how fast. At the very least I will at least get the oil slathered around well.

Lycoming states a max CHT of 500F (!!) but I know things like valve guides etc can start to come apart before that. What does the gang think I ought to use for a yellow-line and red-line for this little experiment?
jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 09:09 PM   #70
Neil
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Monroe, LA Work at F89 Winnsboro, LA
Posts: 5,838
Liked 775 Times on 584 Posts
Likes Given: 264

Default

Ran mine the first time just tied to the truck. Light engine and prop with a short(12") motor mount and had the elevators on it. Tail came up a little when the rope got tight. Ran it again later after I got brakes on it and not tied to the truck and keeping the tail down was not an issue. Even taxied around a bit. I"m guessing that with the long mount, heavy engine/prop and no elevators it could get pretty exciting.

Weight the tail all you can and tie off to something lower than a trailer hitch, like the bottom of a fence post.
Also, if you use a step ladder to get in it will blow away, then you will bust your a$$ trying to get out.
__________________
OOPS you can fix with a paper towel. UH OH is going to require more money.
Building Acro Sport II NX11ND
Plans #425
Neil is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 12:58 AM   #71
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Good ideas Neil, and good point about the ladder! I'll pull it up and put it in the front cockpit before I start it. I think what I will do for weight is - two truck tires/rims under the back, right in front of the tailwheel. Since I have no elevator on I will strap those right to the frame through the elevator/control hole, or maybe to the tailwheel mount. Its not going to pick up 100+ lbs at the tail. Then I'll tie it off to a rope, run the truck up and stop ontop of the rope (under truck tire, pinning it to the ground) and tie off to my truck. It wont go anywhere with that setup. Plus brakes and big chocks.

Hopefully it all works out. If not I'll be sure to post pictures of my bent prop and runaway airframe :-)
jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 10:22 PM   #72
jbrinker
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Liked 11 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Frigging plane...

Well, today was the day. 50F and sunny, took the afternoon off. Gathered what I needed and headed out.
I got battery cables, bolts, wired up the boat battery to the plane. Tried it briefly, strong crank. Good.
Buttoned it up and pulled it out of the hangar, tied the tail down to two of my mounted spare tires, and roped it to my car.
Chocked the wheels. Climbed in and followed the start procedure.
- Pump manual fuel pump until fuel flow moves (Im not sure what Im looking for here, but I thought I saw it wiggle)
- Mixture rich
- Throttle open 1/2 inch
- Crank it

Pop.. VROOOOM. Damn, started on the first crank! Throttle back, and Vrr. Vr.... rrr Cough pop. Engine stalled...

Ran for about 30 seconds. Try to restart. Cranking but will not even pop. Cannot get fuel pressure to show on the gauge.

Looks like the manual boost pump (which is way back by the pilot, and is the low spot on the plane) is shot. I pulled the fuel line up at the engine, and cannot get fuel to come out of that line no matter how hard I pump it. It has gas in it though, as I checked. I can hear it gurgle in the line, but it never makes it up. I suspect if I filled the tank ALL the way, it would flow by gravity to the engine pump. But clearly the boost pump is not able to do anything.

So, looks like thats it for the winter. Put it back, cleaned up the hangar, and sealed it up for now. Dammit. At least the preservation oil got slung around a little I hope. I cranked it about a total of 5 mintues with 30psi of oil pressure trying to start it after the initial run.

Seriously thinking about re-doing the fuel system to have an electric boost pump up front and no wobble and extra plumbing. I at least have to rebuild the christen wobble pump. I think I prefer the way Chris did his plane.

Jeff


jbrinker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
O-290 questions Dana Lycoming & Continental 34 03-15-2017 12:50 AM
Dave's Rediculous Acro Sport II Questions Collection! aerofan Acrosport 29 10-15-2012 03:24 PM
O-540 questions... ckhd Steen Skybolt 7 09-04-2012 12:41 AM
S-1D Questions cincypilot Pitts 26 09-18-2010 02:25 AM
TIG Questions Beej Skybolt Miscellaneous 6 03-27-2008 05:46 PM