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Old 10-07-2013, 01:32 AM   #1
Aananda
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Default Securing Wing Ribs

Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding securing the wing ribs. When securing the reinforcement plates on the wing ribs do you suggest securing them with small nails or will a traditional staple work as well?

Thank you for your assistance.
Philips


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Old 10-07-2013, 01:46 AM   #2
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Nails or staples serve no purpose after the glue dries. I like to put a couple of nails in to secure the doubler, then use clamps and scrap wood for pressure.

Steve


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Old 10-07-2013, 02:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aananda View Post
Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding securing the wing ribs. When securing the reinforcement plates on the wing ribs do you suggest securing them with small nails or will a traditional staple work as well?

Thank you for your assistance.
Philips
I'm a bit confused by the question. Are you referring to the rib gussets as reinforcement plates? If so you can use the small staples or nails. As to the reinforcement plates on the spars, I used a few nails to keep them from creeping around and used some light clamping to the plates.
0053.JPG   0055.jpg   0057.jpg  
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:25 AM   #4
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My bad. I originally thought he was talking about the doublers. I think he's referring to gussets.

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Old 10-07-2013, 12:57 PM   #5
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Phillips,
Lots of info here;
http://www.biplaneforum.com/f14/nail...ue-epoxy-4475/
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:40 PM   #6
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Thank you guys so much for the reply. I am still waiting on the welder to get the fuselage back so I decided to get started on the wings to keep from wasting time.

Have a great day,
Philips
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:24 AM   #7
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Default Removing staples

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Flamini View Post
Phillips,
Lots of info here;
http://www.biplaneforum.com/f14/nail...ue-epoxy-4475/
Dennis in Chicago

I read this whole post and just though I would throw in an idea I used to use in another life.When I was a"younger fellow" I built scenery for the theatre and used a lot of ply.Any thing that was to be visible and was glued and stapled, had the staple removed.To facilitate the removal we would cant the airstapler over to one side a little so the leg on one side of the staple sat up a bit and was easy to grasp or slide something underneath and removal was easy. As has been said in the other post we also used sacrificial thin pieces of timber to achieve the same end. Cheers Ross
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:04 AM   #8
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Hi Guys,

I have two questions. The first is about the Cabane uprights. I have started building a jig for welding the assembly. Sheet 12 shows the diagram. To the left section 3-A, shows an optional fitting for the front leg that is adjustable. Which do you feel is the best to use?

Also, the torque tube that supports the control sticks, my plans say that the distance from the frame to be determined at mounting. My question is, determined by what? It is the height of the seat in relation to the size of the pilot which would make it an individual thing or is there something else that needs to be considered?

Thank you all,
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:02 AM   #9
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First you need to read the rigging article for the center section in Acro Sport Newsletter #65. This will give you some information that you need to keep in mind when building the "N" strut. I believe it is always better to build accurately and have as few adjustable points as possible. The adjustable forward fitting is something I would only do if building a non adjustable strut doesn't work out. Besides, that Piper fitting is a little pricey.

The full Acro Sport Newsletter set can be found in "Handy Resources"

I'm not sure I understand what you are referring to in your second question. Can you give me the page and zone? What color is the cover of your plans set? (Green, Yellow, Pink or Tan)
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:09 AM   #10
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Hi Neil,

Thank you for the response. The torque tube that holds the control sticks, sheet four zone B 4&5 show it in position under the fuselage. They also show detailed manufacture of two bearings that hold the torque tube in position. It seems that you weld some 3/8 tubing in position and run bolts through to hold the entire assemble into position. But I thought they said that you shimmed it with washers and determined how high or low it sat at assembly. I could not find any place that shows or gives any other specs unless you bolt the bearing directly flush and then lock the torgue tube into position with the bearing. I am not actually ready to mount it yet but I like to get these things clear in my mind and look ahead so that I don't get caught with any surprises. I may need to call you one day if that is alright and speak with you directly. By the way, the cover sheet on my plans is TAN.

Thank you as always for taking the time to help.
Philip
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:32 AM   #11
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mine are bolted directly to the mounts. no washers or shims. heres a few pics, note: there is no front controls........






the cabanes were a pain to build. had them jigged perfectly. welded them and they moved around. but pushed them straight again with a port-a-power. +1 vote for building them without the adjustable front mount.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:12 AM   #12
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OK, the shimming is only used if it relieves any binding but generally the blocks just come up to the bracket that is welded into the fuselage. Also the plans say to build the bearing block by boring the hole for the torque tube and then sawing it in half. No. Make up the blocks in two pieces and bore the hole so it fits the tube. You will then have a set of blocks that work properly.
You are welcome to call me any time.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:45 AM   #13
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Smizo,

Did you make a display set of those pillow blocks to put in a crystal case on your mantel? They are gorgeous!

Danny
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:54 AM   #14
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i do have one spare thanks!
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:42 AM   #15
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Thank you guys.

Smizo,

Your photos are very clear and helped a great deal. Do you by chance have a close-up photo that shows the bracket for the trim-tab hinge on the elevator (sheet 10, detail C-2) and the trim-tab system (sheet 11, detail B-3)? Sometimes it helps to see a completed assembly in addition to the print.

Philips
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:44 PM   #16
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I do but I didn't follow the plans for the location of the handle. Mine is on the right side because of my throttle arrangement on the left. If you go back through the first partof my build thread, how I built the trim is in there.
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:36 PM   #17
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Hey Guys,

The plans suggest that pop-rivets are to be used to secure the turtle deck. AirCraft Spruce has so many types that I don't know where to begin. Would someone suggest the most appropriate pop-rivet to use on the turtle deck? Do we want to use a raised or countersunk head? Any help would be appreciated.

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Old 11-11-2014, 02:47 AM   #18
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On my Eagle I used counter sunk rivets. And I think it looks great. It was a bit more work but well worth it. Turned out very smooth
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Old 11-11-2014, 03:29 AM   #19
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Sheet 9 zone A 1 suggest AN426AD-4-4 rivets or MK 429 BS USM (Cherry N-43) pop rivets and that all holes be dimpled.

The Cherry rivets have a 120 degree head so you would need a 120 deg dimple die set. The AN 426 rivets have a 100 degree head and the appropriate dimple die sets would be needed for those a well.

Several different techniques for the AN rivets; squeeze, buck or back rivet or use the Cherrys and pull them.

I built my Turtle Deck from plywood.
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Old 11-11-2014, 03:44 AM   #20
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CR3212-4-4 etc is a nominal size 100 degree countersunk cherry rivet.
CR3242-4-4 etc is a oversize (27 drill bit for a -4) 100 degree countersunk cherry rivet.

These are the most commonly used cherry rivets along with CR3213 and CR3243 universal head rivets. CR3214 is a NAS1097 size head rivet. (A 1/8" rivet or 4 will have a head approx the size of a 3 rivet etc).


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Old 11-11-2014, 03:56 AM   #21
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Those numbers are for Cherry Max. I was just listing the Commercial rivets or common "Pop" rivets.
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Old 11-11-2014, 02:24 PM   #22
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Neil, sounds good. The CherryMax numbers I listed are the common AN470AD and AN426AD replacements. You can install them with regular KP-2 hand pullers. I recommend dipping them in sealant (890-B2 or the like) before install...by dipping I mean alittle sealant. Use MEK to clean excess sealant after install. Most don't do this, its more work, but you rivets won't tend to "work" near as fast if you do. Also another hint is be sure the head of the rivets is seated flush with skin before you pull...it's a bad rivet if you can fit your nail under the head. I know other "pop" rivets may be used in aviation but these are the standard in general aviation. That's on problem I have with Vans and Titan mustangs...tons of trailer type pop rivets...not on a plane I build. Not saying its wrong, just has room for improvement and a real CherryMax rivet is a improvement over a pop rivet.


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Old 12-31-2014, 05:55 AM   #23
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I am starting the ribs for the wings and noticed the book says to varnish when completed. Would it be better to varnish them before assembly then varnish entire wing after? Thank you for your direction.

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Old 12-31-2014, 12:42 PM   #24
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I just wait until the wings are together. Varnish them now and you will have to keep the varnish off all the areas you will be gluing later.
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Old 01-01-2015, 01:12 PM   #25
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I guess my view, having just gone through varnishing of the wings, is that I would at least varnish the areas inside all of the gussets before assembling the ribs onto the spars. Once you glue them onto the spars it's a lot harder to manipulate the wing to a position where you can wedge your brush and easily reach all those areas. If you have an area you don't want varnish on, throw a piece of masking tape on it. At least that's how I'm going to do it the next time around.


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