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Old 04-22-2010, 04:01 PM   #1
raceair
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Don't know where to put this, but if anyone out there is interested in the Mong Sport, I own the design rights and have built or re-built several Mongs. The Mong is the grandaddy to the Micro Mong that I designed.
I have two Mongs in the shop, and am always involved with them in some way. Any comments or questions on the design, I will do my best to answer......Ed Fisher, Raceair Designs



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Old 09-14-2011, 11:46 PM   #2
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Ed,

Is there any place on the web that has more information and photos of the Mong Sport? I've seen a few very nice examples for sale on Barnstormers over the years, but no significant web presence.

Got any good pics to share?

Thanks,

-Wayne



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Old 02-24-2012, 06:54 PM   #3
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Hi Ed,
I am interested in the Mong Sport as a build project.


Do you have a price for plans & latest design specs/literature/photos. I wanted a project that I can grow with development wise. I also would be interested in its flight charatoristics compared with say a pitts or knight twister or miniplane or similar. I am a low hours tail dragger but high hours trike. Any feedback would be great.


On a different note, my greatest concern is that I am a larger guy 5'11" and 210lbs. I had heard that this might be a problem.


I look forward to hearing from you regarding this interesting little aircraft.
Regards, Wayne

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:58 PM   #4
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Hi Wayne, thanks for your interest in the Mong Sport. If you Google Mong Sport Biplane, and go to images, there are several. On my old website, raceairdesigns.com, I have a few pictures of the last one I built.
The original plans are still $100.00, plus shipping, if out of the USA.
I am now much into the design and build of a new set of wings, that have 12 square feet more wing area, aimed at lower stall speeds. At present, with the 80 sq. ft. wings , 560 pound airframe weight, 220 pound pilot, and 8 gal. fuel, routinely I saw a 60 mph stall speed.
I am 5'-8". Anybody over 5'-10" will be sticking up fairly far out of the airplane. My new MS-3 airframe puts the control column under the longerons, which will lower the seat about 2".
The Mong lands easier than a Miniplane or a Pitts, mostly because you can see out of it so well. As well, the main gear axle centerline is farther aft, proportionally, than it is on the Pitts. This lightens the tailwheel load, which improves the rollout quality.
If you want to do hard acro, a Pitts is a better choice. A Mong is a loop/roll/spin positive maneuver sport Biplane.
For transition training, a Luscombe, Sonerai, Swift, or similar aircraft are good choices.
For a sportplane Mong, I recommend the 0-200 Continental for power......Ed

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Old 02-27-2012, 07:55 AM   #5
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Hi Ed,
Do the original $100 plans include the MS-3 airframe. I am interested in the hieght issue. Similarly, in your design intentions, do you plan to do anything like the Budy Baby Lakes for a 2 place?


If the MS-3 is included, how might I arrange to purchase a set of plans? Do you do PayPal, money transfer,etc as sending a USD cheque from Dubai is a problem for both of us.


Regards, Wayne

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Old 02-27-2012, 04:14 PM   #6
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Wayne, The original drawings include the MS-3 fuselage, but not the new control system , or the new Wings. Also, I am in the process of turning over the design rights to someone else, and the new owner is going to have all the drawings re-drawn at that time....

I have no plans to stretch the Mong into a Buddy Baby type two place. I am already into the Sport Fleet, which has generous seating, and will be the next pproject to finish, once my 'Lil Bitts promotion is underway, and rolling along smoothly. The decision to let the Mong design go is that there is no need to promote it and the Lil Bitts at the same time.

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Old 06-15-2012, 02:08 PM   #7
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Default Mong Construction planning

The Mong is on my short list which now is very short! I'm ready to start fitting tubes. Just ordered a set of plans from Ed, thanks for talking with me Ed, its always a pleasure to talk with like minded people.
A couple questions for anyone you cares to opine
The larger wings are very desirable to me, I'm not light and the smooth part of my grass strip is short, any problem with starting fuselage construction before I know what the spar spacing and other dimensions are?
If so I can always start with the tail surfaces.
At 6' wearing 32" 32" jeans, putting the controls under the truss and using a curved seat back, and probably adding an inch or two to the front bay is a given. Do changes like that make you cringe like some of the other designers?
The larger wings really have me excited, any chance of contacting the new rights holder to encourage him? I see him at reno every year but that may not be a very good place to bug him about it.
Thinking of Reno its really hard to get the idea out of my head of using an old O-320 thats under my bench in the Mong. I promise to keep it light other than that. Does that excite others like it does me?
Which leads me to..
Whats the VNE?
Rick

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Old 06-15-2012, 03:10 PM   #8
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Will the larger wings allow a stall speed reduction that would allow it to qualify as LSA?

Stall would have to be lowered from 60mph down to 51 mph which is the LSA limit I believe (45 kts CAS)

Seems like a long way to go to reduce by 9 mph.

I've always wondered who would know on a single place what the stall speed is anyhow? Would the FAA airworthiness inspector really doubt a purported speed? On what basis could he prove the test pilot wrong?

Just look at the plane such as a baby lakes. It for all the world "looks" like an LSA but I think its stall speed is also too high. But if a person were to make bigger wings and then tell the FAA that it indeed stalls slower and meets LSA. Would anyone deny it as LSA?

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Old 06-15-2012, 04:35 PM   #9
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Default LSA compliance

To demonstrate the stall speed is below the LSA clip level I believe we would have to have it documented in the phase 1 flight test data. When ramp checked they can look at the data plate to see the gross is below 1320 and if they want us to prove the stall speed we could produce the phase one data at a later time since that is not required to be carried.
Our local FAA guys in central Tx are pretty sharp and they ramp checked everyone at the last Young Eagles event. If someone was there with a Midget Mustag without a 3rd class they would have had a long talk with him!

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Old 06-15-2012, 04:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airfoil View Post
Our local FAA guys in central Tx are pretty sharp and they ramp checked everyone at the last Young Eagles event.
I didn't think the FAA was supposed to use an "Event" as an opportunity to do ramp checks. Did they only check pilots giving rides?
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:55 PM   #11
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Hi guys. The new 'plus' wings for the Mong are intended to allow the stall to be in the light sport parameters. It is also to accomodate the heavier pilots, such as myself.. To get started building the fuselage, my design criteria was that the fuselage would not have any changes to accomodate the new, bigger wings. You could start on the fuselage now, even before the new wing drawings are available. The Spar centerlines are still at 15". The plans sets that go out right now have the extra sheet for the stretched/widened MS-3 fuselage.
The control column under the seat , with push pulls for elevator, rather than cables, is another change in my new MS-3 design.
Other than weight, the 0-320 needs to be accompanied by the necessary amout of fuel to feed it, which means that a Mong will have to have both wing tanks, and a fuselage tank...More weight, more complexity, but Mongs do fly quite well with the 0-320. Andrew's #26 racer Mong has an 0-320, and was turning lap speeds over 175, I believe. That means, in Reno's thin air, close to 200 on the straight aways.
I am however, building the new Plus Prototype to be as light as possible, with a Small Continental. Once it flys and I can prove out these new wings, the drawings will be made available....Ed Fisher, Mong Design owner

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Old 07-08-2012, 03:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raceair
Hi guys. The new 'plus' wings for the Mong are intended to allow the stall to be in the light sport parameters. It is also to accomodate the heavier pilots, such as myself.. To get started building the fuselage, my design criteria was that the fuselage would not have any changes to accomodate the new, bigger wings. You could start on the fuselage now, even before the new wing drawings are available. The Spar centerlines are still at 15". The plans sets that go out right now have the extra sheet for the stretched/widened MS-3 fuselage.
The control column under the seat , with push pulls for elevator, rather than cables, is another change in my new MS-3 design.
Other than weight, the 0-320 needs to be accompanied by the necessary amout of fuel to feed it, which means that a Mong will have to have both wing tanks, and a fuselage tank...More weight, more complexity, but Mongs do fly quite well with the 0-320. Andrew's #26 racer Mong has an 0-320, and was turning lap speeds over 175, I believe. That means, in Reno's thin air, close to 200 on the straight aways.
I am however, building the new Plus Prototype to be as light as possible, with a Small Continental. Once it flys and I can prove out these new wings, the drawings will be made available....Ed Fisher, Mong Design owner
Ed,
What makes the Mong faster than the SMP?

Hoss
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:47 PM   #13
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Hoss.....Whats a 'SMP' ?

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Old 07-08-2012, 05:56 PM   #14
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Smith Mini Plane

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Old 07-08-2012, 06:06 PM   #15
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Thanks Neil................The Mong is faster than the Miniplane, engine for engine, for several reasons.....The fuselage is slimmer, The airfoil is a 2412, which is faster than the 4412, The single lift strut actually creates less drag than the flying and landing wires, The cabanes have a center mount at the wing, less drag than the separate cabanes of the Miniplane. The wing incidence is more positive on the Miniplane's bottom wing, the Mong has 80 sq. ft. of lifting surface, the Miniplane has about 100 s.f. To top it off, the average Mong is 75 pounds lighter than the average Miniplane.
Everything's a compromise. My Mong Stalled at 60, My Miniplane about 57/55.
Another benefit of the Mong is that the airfoil does not have the pitching moment that the Miniplane's does....Ed Fisher

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Old 07-09-2012, 01:19 AM   #16
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Thanks Ed.
Still enjoy your race news letters.

I love to have a Mong you just can't find them like you can a Smith Mini plane.

Hoss

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Old 07-09-2012, 11:10 AM   #17
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Yes, there are fewer Mongs around, but I hear of them from time to time. I know of a 'project' Mong that probably could be had....e-mail ...raceairdesigns@hotmail.com for more info.....Ed

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Old 03-05-2013, 01:56 AM   #18
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Hi,
I have found what the guy says is a Mong Sport? how do I tell? I know nothing about them. it has no engine, where could I get one and what would it cost?
Bob
sunmtman1958@yahoo.com

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Old 03-05-2013, 02:01 AM   #19
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What do I need to look for to make sure it is a Mong Sport? Where would I get an engine for one? What is one worth that is restored?
Bob

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Old 03-05-2013, 12:02 PM   #20
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I believe a Mong Sport has a vertical cabane if I'm not mistaken.

As far as restoration value? There's a good chance you won't get out what you put into a homebuilt. In the world of little biplanes the Pitts seems to set the bar and a used pitts is actually a pretty good value. People build and restore based on a labor of love more than anything.



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