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Old 02-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #26
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You are probably right Bill. Its my choice of words again that is causing difficulty(we are all upside down here at the bottom of the world after all).Twisting probably isnt whatI was trying to put across, more a side to side loading as you mention above, left wing moves back and it loads the rear cabane sideways to the right for example.


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Old 02-08-2012, 08:53 PM   #27
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OK, left wing moves aft at the tip. You're loading the triangle such that right leg is in compression and the left leg is in tension. Seems like exactly what you want from a triangle.

<strike>Farther down that bay is not triangulated because it's in the cockpit. That might see some abnormal motion there</strike>. EDIT: Duh! It is triangulated forward to the firewall. Never mind!! Been a long day.........

You're not upside down unless you try to tell me left is right and right is left. [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

Edited by: cwilliamrose


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Old 02-15-2012, 10:47 PM   #28
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The photo in the first post in this thread doesn't seem to show the radius blocks, that is a must or else the longerons will look like someone has taken to it with an axe after a while.

Robbie Grove at Grove Aircraft in CA will tell you all about it, he is very helpful.

This photo is an S1 where the radius blocks were not used, the force of the gear spreading twisted the longeron tubes out and eventually broke them, he's got radius blocks now.

Edited by: Flying Ant

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Old 03-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #29
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Hallo there!!



Here i am again with a new question!

I will use these photo as reference.... Sorry McWolf but your work is....WEEL DONE!

The question is, does enyone know the thickness of the 4130 fin rib sheet?
I have the Steen aerolab drawings....I can not find it!

I became blind![img]smileys/smiley16.gif[/img]
and is not a good think for my medical!!

Thanks
Gaetano C.








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Old 03-09-2012, 06:09 PM   #30
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.025" 4130 sheet. It's in the BOM of 1-210, Sht1.

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Old 03-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #31
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Hi cWilliamrose!

Thanks for the prompt answer! But i can't still find it?
I have SteenAero drawings... 33 sheet
What do you mean with BOM 1-210?
Sheet 1 in my drawings Show the three view....

Tanks

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Old 03-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #32
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BOM = Bill of Materials.

Steen's Plans Actually don't have a BOM and it isn't called out in the drawings (there are several things the steen drawing lack this just another one). However, the Aviat Plans (Pitts Enterprises Plans actually) do have a BOM list and it is 0.025 Thick 4130N sheet.



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Old 03-10-2012, 04:43 PM   #33
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Ok...
so my eyes are good...
You know where i can find...a BOM??

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Old 03-10-2012, 06:29 PM   #34
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Hi.. You'll need to buy the S1-S plans from Aviat if you want all the materials listed. Depends on how far you are; I found these more complete than the Steen plans. You could, of course, also just ask the forum from time to time when you find a tube or part that it is not specified.
I'm a bit of a plans set collector. I've found interesting insights in almost all plans I have, that even if they don't immediately apply to what I am building. They seem to augment my understanding of what is and what is not acceptable in aircraft construction techniques, and that's gotta be good.
Have fun. I enjoyed building the fuselage more than any other part of the build.

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Old 03-10-2012, 11:23 PM   #35
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Sorry gc737n,

After I posted that I wondered if the Steen plans followed the sheet numbering of the factory drawings. I guess not. And no BOM? Must be completely different. Again, sorry for being less than fully helpful. As Stuart said, if you don't have the Aviat set as a cross reference, just post a question and we'll get back to you.


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Old 03-11-2012, 07:57 PM   #36
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Hallo there!

Please...i ask you to explain some things.
SteenAero...website says that the set of drawings is the same for Pitts S1C and Pitts S1-SS exept for the wings.

Aviat distributes drawings for S1-S.

The S1-SS "Steen" and S1-S "Aviat" are the same aircraft?

If yes these means that S1-C "Steen" has the same fuselage of S1-S "Aviat"

Now...There are manufacturing differences between Steen...and Aviat? Because if there are, this means that is not the same aircraft at all!!

If not these means that "Steen" S1C or S1-SS drawings they only lack !! respect Aviat drawings.

thanks...

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Old 03-11-2012, 08:06 PM   #37
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A special greeting to cwilliamrose....and FLORIDA...a place that i miss.[img]smileys/smiley19.gif[/img]..where i got my wings..[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img].



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Old 03-11-2012, 09:50 PM   #38
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I believe the genealogy is this. S1-C always a homebuilt with plans sold by Pitts; he sold the rights to Steen. S1-S was sold as production and kits from Aviat; came with the rights to make the S2s. With all the S copy wings out there Steen adds their copy with the SS. Pitts is the consultant on all when he was around. All started with the S1-C but when improvements were made, they were made on different timelines.

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Old 03-12-2012, 01:41 AM   #39
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If you had just one set of plans to build/rebuild or just work on a Pitts the factory S1-S drawings are the best to have.(opinion) Having said that I have worked on and flown a lot of C models from the old days where the builder was "freestyling" on many components. One airplane I flew had heel brakes, they are fine on a J-3 but I prefer toe brakes on an S1.

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Old 03-12-2012, 05:16 PM   #40
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Curtis Pitts sold plans for the S-1 before there was a four aileronsymmetrical wing version. After the S-2 was certified they started work on getting the S-1 certified. A new set of drawings was produced for FAA type certification. These are the drawings the factory usedto produce the S-1S. The plans were also soldto the public but the wing drawings were for the flat wings (C model), not thesymmetrical airfoil wings. Sometime later Steenacquired the design rights and for some reason I don't understand, produced yet another version of the S-1 plans. I have not seen this set but from what I understand, they are not as complete as the factory drawings.
The wings for the SS version aredifferentthan the S version because of the ailerons. The original S wings had Friseailerons where the SS wings have the newer Super Stinker ailerons. The C wings are also Frise ailerons but have only two ailerons on the lower wings.
I too would rather build from the factory plan set because that's what I have used with good success in the past.

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Old 03-12-2012, 10:47 PM   #41
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Regarding the loads from snaps etc:
I had the flanged front fittings on my homebuilt S1. They were fine until I started doing climbing vertical snaps. Then they slowly started bending.
Curtis put the tube between the front and rear cabanes on the first S1T and a lot of people just copied it
The original drag wire washers were AN 970 washers, which are relatively soft. They would bend(cup) and then the wire block would split. Early on the factory went to a stainless washer, about .090 thick, very hard material. I took this a step further and used hardwood for the wire blocks.
My snap roll speed limit was 135, but when you are doing vertical up snaps who knows. You are not sitting there watching the airspeed.

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Old 03-12-2012, 11:26 PM   #42
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Bill,
Is this the set you are talking aout?
Do you have a set with the new ailerons?
Dennis in Chicago



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Old 03-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #43
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It looks to be the same set Dennis but I don't have the sheet you show. Mine was purchased in 1976. Here's the first sheet's title block;



I have the SS drawings from Steen (two copies actually, if someone is interested in the spare set). The original '76 set had only drawings for the C wings. The four aileron wing drawings were not for sale at that time -- you had to buy wings from the factory or create your own without drawings.

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Old 03-13-2012, 02:36 PM   #44
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I have a lot of S1 drawings. The last set I bought was from the factory in '92. They have all the certified S1-S parts including the symetrical wings with rib coordinates etc. I think they are a good value as they have all the details a new builder would benefit from. All the small details that make up a biplane are there. The bill of materials will help a builder buy the proper amount of material for an S1 as well. In '92 I paid $ 250.00 for them.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #45
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&lt;Removed

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Old 03-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #46
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"xxxxxxxx"

&lt;Admin.Removed




We are sensitive to copy-rite issues. Please be aware that these companies have money invested in their products and expect (and deserve) income from their investment.

We encourage helping with specific questions but exchanging sets of plans makes most of the plan copy-rite owners get a little red faced.



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