The Biplane Forum > Biplane Builder's Forums > Acrosport > Acro 2 covering


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2012, 08:07 PM   #1
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default



We are 340 hrs into covering so far with one day left to finish taping wings but fuselage and fin not started yet. If we had paid $50 per hr shop labor and $2,500 in materials so far we would have $19,500 in it with no spray coats yet.
Weighed the top and bottom wings with tapes but no spray coats and they both weighed 38# which is lighter than the other wings we have at 45#
We have a small HVLP 4oz touch up gun to shoot misc. and Binks model 7 with 2 QT pressure pot to spray the Polyfiber.
Hint for others not covered...drill all the holes in plywood for stitches before covering especially in the wing walk area.
The spray booth cleared out the Polyfiber VOC's fine with three 20" box fans.
Dennis in Chicago

Edited by: flamini2


__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2012, 09:32 PM   #2
jgnunn
Creator of this place
BiP_ADMIN.png
 
jgnunn's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,735
Liked 196 Times on 142 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by flamini2
We are 340 hrs into covering so far with one day left to finish taping wings but fuselage and fin not started yet.
OMG..who wants to buy a project. :0\


__________________
jgnunn is offline  
Rumpler Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2012, 11:59 PM   #3
darylat8750
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
darylat8750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: laramie, wy, usa
Posts: 2,180
Liked 86 Times on 69 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Send a message via MSN to darylat8750
Default

Hang in there Beej! You can do it! [img]smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]

__________________
darylat8750 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2012, 02:22 AM   #4
TxSkyBolt
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
TxSkyBolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Universal City, TX
Posts: 1,393
Liked 133 Times on 89 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Send a message via MSN to TxSkyBolt
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by flamini2
We are 340 hrs into covering so far with one day left to finish taping wings but fuselage and fin not started yet. At $50 per hr shop labor and $2,500 in materials so far we have $19,500 in it with no spray coats yet.
Weighed the top and bottom wings with tapes but no spray coats and they both weighed 38# which is lighter than the other wings we have at 45#
We have a small HVLP 4oz touch up gun to shoot misc. and Binks model 7 with 2 QT pressure pot to spray the Polyfiber.
Hint for others not covered...drill all the holes in plywood for stitches before covering especially in the wing walk area.
The spray booth cleared out the Polyfiber VOC's fine with three 20" box fans.
Dennis in Chicago
Are you saying you're paying someone $50 per hour to cover your wings and it's taken 340 hours so far and they aren't even finished? Time to find a new shop.
__________________
TxSkyBolt is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2012, 02:32 AM   #5
jgnunn
Creator of this place
BiP_ADMIN.png
 
jgnunn's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,735
Liked 196 Times on 142 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

I think Dennis is highlighting (with tongue in cheek) the low labor rates that we builders endure whilst dealing with a labor of love :0|...

__________________
jgnunn is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2012, 04:21 AM   #6
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

Brad,
We had an old thread about the cost of covering. The Pitts factory was about $30,000 for an S1. Some thought the price was high, it is looking way low from the amount of work it has taken us.
John is right, we are not the fastest builders in the world but it is not our first biplane covering either. So far we have only done the big items...still need to spray polybrush, polyspray and finish coats. cover the fuselage and fin and tape the i struts and then prep and paint all the small covers, struts, and the alum cowlings, etc.
My $50 per hr was just an estimate of what i thought a fair price for shop time doing this kind of work. When we are working on the plane we do not stop to eat or BS so our hours logged are conservative.
PS; we also would have had to take everything apart and reassemble, rig which is not included in the costs above. No hanger heat or rent.
i would be interested in the time that others have logged for covering.

__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2012, 02:01 PM   #7
TFF1
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 1,136
Liked 145 Times on 119 Posts

Default

If that pressure pot setup is new, make sure the feed lines are clean. On a cheaper pot, I started spraying and cosmoline started coming out of the line with the white paint.

__________________
TFF1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 02:16 AM   #8
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

8 hrs labor to make and glue the two aileron insp. covers. Alum ring with holes glued to top of fabric with cut out folded over top of ring and glued, fabric oversized cover glued over top and cut out folded under and glued to
bottom of wing cover. Tinnerman nuts sandwich all fabric for screws of cover with radius slot for aileron bellcrank.
Dennis in Chicago



__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 03:29 AM   #9
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 3,004
Liked 355 Times on 286 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default


Dennis,

That bolt should have probably been installed the other way so it could be removed without cutting a hole in the top fabric. Yeah, I know, it's not the 'convention' but it's a practical consideration. And the pushrod bolt is upside-down anyway to clear the drag wire. The bolt can't come all the way out unless the plate comes off too and unlike castle nuts, stop nuts won't continue to back off without help.

I make similar plates for Pitts wings but put them under the fabric (between the ribs) with a standard inspection ring nearby. The plates I install have a small hole for the bolt to be removed should it ever be necessary.

Edited by: cwilliamrose
__________________
cwilliamrose is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 04:26 AM   #10
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

Bill,
It is one of those things you do...putting in the bolt with nut down without thinking about the fabric if you have to take it off. Hopefully it will help someone else to not repeat my error. On the other hand i am 69 years old,
the bellcrank has those really expensive bearings and works as smooth as silk...will no doubt out last me.
It looks like i have room to get the aileron pushrod bolt in workways.
Dennis in Chicago


__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #11
cwilliamrose
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
cwilliamrose's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 3,004
Liked 355 Times on 286 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

The odds are in your favor that the bolt will not need anything more than a little tightening, unless there's a bushing between the bearings for the bolt to tighten against. In that case you would need to remove the assembly to get the bushing out so it could be made a touch shorter. The bellcrank is pretty bulletproof.

But it's not too late, you could do the bolt removal now and patch it before the finishing process goes any farther. The end result would be almost invisible.

__________________
cwilliamrose is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2012, 02:19 PM   #12
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default


Bottom wings final brush coat on tapes. Fuselage fin and left side covered.
Started at bottom of right turtle deck and over top to left bottom longeron to eliminate seam at top, center...2 more pieces of fabric then some serious spraying.
Dennis in Chicago
Trying to stay ahead of Chris



Edited by: flamini2
__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2012, 05:19 PM   #13
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Clarks Summit, PA
Posts: 3,335
Liked 572 Times on 419 Posts
Likes Given: 937

Default

Haha, very nice Dennis I like what you did with the turtle deck. I kinda have a feeling yours will fly first :-) so how long did the stitching take you? Lookin good!

__________________
smizo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2012, 05:33 PM   #14
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

Chris,
The best we could do stitching was 2 guys 8 hrs per wing....no breaks no bs.
The Pitts will be a little faster with smaller chord.
Put the photos of your engine here on the Acrosport.
You just made a lot of guys jealous.
Dennis

__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #15
Dave.flying
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 214
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Send a message via MSN to Dave.flying
Default

Hey Dennis that is looking good, just remember your iron is your sandpaper till you start spraying poly spray never more than 220 on the iron and spend loads of time ironing every bubble, lump and brush mark out. Lots of ironing round the pinked edges of the tapes helps. Thats what I found doing mine.Dave

__________________
Dave.flying is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2012, 06:07 PM   #16
Dave.flying
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 214
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Send a message via MSN to Dave.flying
Default

P.S very gentle with the iron as you can leave iron tracks

__________________
Dave.flying is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2012, 12:55 AM   #17
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

Last 2 pieces of fabric on the fuselage installed, shrunk and primed.
Do you guys stitch the stringers?
Ranthane, Areothane, Imron, or polytone...pros and cons please?



__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2012, 01:02 AM   #18
Neil
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Neil's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 4,356
Liked 308 Times on 243 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Just the ribs

__________________
Neil is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2012, 01:09 AM   #19
Don Adamson
Senior Member
 
Don Adamson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lonoke, AR
Posts: 292
Liked 19 Times on 16 Posts

Default

I don't stitch the stringers but you need to stitch the rudder ribs, it looks like you haven't yet.
I have been having great success with Randthane.
Poly Fiber has a new process called Star Gloss that basically starts the same, ends with Randthane but uses a polyurethane primer/sealer (with silver) between the two. It cuts out those endless coats of Polybrush and Polyspray.

__________________
Don Adamson is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2012, 01:24 AM   #20
smizo
Moderator
BiP_MODERATOR.png
 
smizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Clarks Summit, PA
Posts: 3,335
Liked 572 Times on 419 Posts
Likes Given: 937

Default

Looks real nice Dennis.

__________________
smizo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2012, 01:53 AM   #21
TFF1
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 1,136
Liked 145 Times on 119 Posts

Default

Imron will crack on you faster than the others. Poly tone will not be as shinny but it is the most repairable. The fuse looks good. How much overlap did you put on the turtle deck on the right side? Minimum or more?

__________________
TFF1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2012, 06:41 PM   #22
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

Thanks for all the replies and info,
We overlapped the right lower turttledeck a little over 1" so we can use a 3"
tape that overlaps the seam and metal edge to fabric. No seam on top looks great.

i have 20 year old polytoned fabric we took off the yellow Acro 2 and you can
ball it up as tight as possible and fold it flat with not a single crack.
Has anyone tried that with one of the polyurethanes?

PS; not sure if this has been discussed but the belly fabric needs to be glued
the same as a curved surface then heat shrink the lap then trim then glue.
Still had a bubble at the front that needed serious heat shrink.

__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-17-2012, 09:42 PM   #23
Dennis Flamini
BiP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Dennis Flamini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 908
Liked 154 Times on 113 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Send a message via MSN to Dennis Flamini
Default

i need help on the Ranthane color coats. The can says wait 24 hrs to turn on horses and paint other side. how do you handle the overspray? i thought you had to wait for full cross linking before recoating to avoid wrinkles.
The Imron 5000 on the Waco we did sprayed nicer...not sure how it holds up over the years as to flexiblity.
Dennis in Chicago




__________________
Dennis Flamini is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-17-2012, 10:42 PM   #24
Neil
BiP_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Neil's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 4,356
Liked 308 Times on 243 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

I know this isn't much help, but that is why rotisseries are so popular.

__________________
Neil is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-17-2012, 10:50 PM   #25
jgnunn
Creator of this place
BiP_ADMIN.png
 
jgnunn's Avatar
Planes
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,735
Liked 196 Times on 142 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

It's a little far ahead for me to be thinking about it, but I figured I would spray the fuselage while on its gear..meaning vertical spray...that not a good idea? and lift the tail wheel high enough to get to the belly so I could do one pass all over.



__________________
jgnunn is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Covering up tdpole1 Acrosport Miscellaneous 21 11-29-2012 10:32 AM
covering pitts apriester Pitts 17 02-17-2012 12:48 AM
WTB: EAA Fabric Covering DVD MNForrest Classifieds 2 11-10-2011 06:32 PM
Re-covering Wings dcrowe1 Acrosport 13 11-09-2011 10:58 AM
Covering the fuselage Vilhelm Fabric & Paint 20 10-11-2011 12:18 PM