The Biplane Forum > Biplane Builder's Forums > Steen Skybolt > Skybolt Wings > Flying Wire Pin in Spar
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #1
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I am going to change the flying/landing wire pins in my wings and have come to a discrepancy that I need advice on.

In the Skybolt News, MAR 77, it shows the compression bushing with a "1/4 rosette hole for welding".

In the Firebolt blueprints, the detail of the compression bushing says "do not weld"



Should it be welded?

If you don't weld it, wouldn't that let the pin "float" fore and aft in the bushing?



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Old 02-12-2012, 11:10 PM   #2
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In the drawing I looked at in the Newsletter the sleeve would need to be welded to the pin to keep the pin from floating. Here is the method used in Acro Sport and a combination of the two could be used if you did not want to do any welding.



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Old 02-12-2012, 11:27 PM   #3
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I saw that type setup in the Pitts building photos on the Steen site.



I agree that the pin would float if not welded, which is why I will weld mine.







Either way, I would like to know why the Firebolt plans say to NOT weld it. Maybe McKenzie expected the eye bolts to ride against the washers and keep the pin in place.








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Old 02-12-2012, 11:58 PM   #4
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I don't understand. The pin can't float with the spacers in place and both wires installed. The cotter pins just keep the parts together and aligned prior to installing the wires. Or am I missing something?
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:20 AM   #5
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The Skybolt plans show a larger bore in the spar to accommodate a sleeve that is captured by the aluminum face plates on the spar. Sort of like putting a bushing in the spar. The bushing is rosett welded to the pin.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:43 AM   #6
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The Firebolt uses a compression bushing inside the spar. If you build the pin/bushing per the Firebolt plans the pin will not move fore and aft when the flying wire attach eye bolts are installed. The pin will rotate to facilitate alignment of the wires but there should be no noticeable play fore and aft. The eye bolt holes in the pin need to be precisely spaced however for this to work out. I dilled mine on a Bridgeport mill and they fit well.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:39 AM   #7
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I think I am seeing the difference here.

If the Skybolt build uses longer flying/landing wires that pass through the pin, Pitts/Acro Sport style, the bushing is welded to the pin to keep the pin from floating fore and aft.

The Firebolt uses the shorter flying/landing wires with a clevis fork that attaches to the pin by means of an eye bolt that is either shimmed off the spar plate or allows the flange of the eyebolt to control the end play of the pin negating the need to weld the bushing to the pin.


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Old 02-13-2012, 03:22 AM   #8
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Exactly Neil.. the flange or shoulder of the eye bolt sets against the washer allowing the pin to center itself in the spar without end play.Edited by: mjk51
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:17 PM   #9
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Ok... so the Firebolt pin is kept centered using the big washer behind the eye bolt.

Thanks for the discussion and clarification.

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Old 02-16-2012, 02:18 PM   #10
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Another question.
Can somebody tell me why I should NOT cad plate the pin?



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Old 02-17-2012, 01:12 AM   #11
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If I'm not mistaken, plating embrittles the steel somewhat.

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Old 02-17-2012, 01:54 AM   #12
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Our planes are covered in cad plated bolts - you may ask... so, to complete the process, you would have to use a plating company that uses acertifiedde-embrittlement process. See this thread:

http://www.biplaneforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1208
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:38 PM   #13
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Okay... not a problem.
My plating vendor does the de-embrittlement bake and it is fully documented.

Thanks guys.

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Old 03-15-2012, 07:39 PM   #14
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I picked up the pins and sleeves today.
Shown here with the associated hardware.





Now that I have them installed, I am very glad that I went with this method as opposed to the standard Skybolt style or the Pitts style.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:21 PM   #15
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I'm updating this thread.
First off, I only ever got around to changing one of the fittings - then my project got shelved for a while. You know, like, almost a whole year.

I just started working on it again in the last couple weeks. In the process of changing out the wire attach points on the lower wings, I found that all the bolts were rusty. Sure, its just a surface layer, and probably not an issue, but I have decided to go ahead and change it all. Hardware is cheap, and it will be a PITA to do this at a later time.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:44 PM   #16
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Test fitted wings last night.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:03 PM   #17
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Flying wires on the hanger doors, Now That's the Spirit!
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:10 PM   #18
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Hell I've got 1/2" X 25' flying wires on the walls of my steel span shop building holding things in place. Our shop is located on a hill top and those wires will vibrate like the devil in a 70 knot wind! As a matter of fact stuff will vibrate right off the wall occasionally.

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Old 10-17-2013, 03:30 AM   #19
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It's probably my poor technique, but if I were to make that 1/4" rosette weld, I most certainly would create a bow in that pin. Is there a way to avoid that?
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:03 AM   #20
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Preheat, Tig, slow cool...?
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr888 View Post
It's probably my poor technique, but if I were to make that 1/4" rosette weld, I most certainly would create a bow in that pin. Is there a way to avoid that?
Alternative to the rosette weld, you could follow the print and NOT weld the sleeve (compression bushing) to the pin. By following the print, you allow the pin to rotate in the sleeve rather than trying to rotate the sleeve in contact with the wood.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:47 PM   #22
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Two opposing rosettes.


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