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Old 03-20-2012, 08:01 PM   #1
paulman21
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Hey everyone. This is my first post in here so hopefully someone can offer some advice. My father and I are looking at buying a Pitts in the near future. We have done a lot of research and know insurance costs and all that jazz, but we are stuck on one major issue. We can't decide on whether to get an S2-B and have an instructor teach us aerobatics in our own aircraft, or buy an S1-T where an instructor can teach us in a rented aircraft, and then one of us practices in the S1 after. If you could provide some insight as to what the cost differences would be between the two paths, that would be great. Also, if anyone knows the cost of a new S1-T that would be great too (I can't find the price anywhere on-line). Thanks for the help!



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Old 03-20-2012, 08:18 PM   #2
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Hi and welcome,
I will take a shot at this.


You need to call Aviat and ask them if they will buildyou a new S-1T. I would guess if they will, it is gonna be veryexpensive. A used S-1T shows up for sale not very often. I see S-2Bs for sale more often.


For day to day operation, the 2 place S-2B with the bigger engine is going to cost more to operate. However you will not have to rent in order to get dual aerobatics lessons. And a Bis capable ofa lot of aerobatics and will be more capablethan"you" are for several years.A single place S-1T is also capable of the same stuff.


Either way will teach you aerobatics. If you can find and afforda nice B, that would be my suggestion.
WallyEdited by: wally



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Old 03-20-2012, 08:42 PM   #3
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A new s1-t is about the same price as a new s-2c with radios and smoke about $365,000. I have a mint s-2c with 74hours tt for sale. $169,000. Most good b's will be up around 90-100k and most have over 20 year old fabric. I say 2 place is alot more fun. I don't think you will find a used t for sale???

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Old 03-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #4
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Welcome aboard.

I almost always vote for 2 places. I just like sharing once in a while.


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Old 03-20-2012, 11:19 PM   #5
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Thanks for the quick replies gentleman. That's kind of the way we were leaning but we just wanted a little more input. But you all are right, we haven't ween any T's for sale in a long time. Thanks again!

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Old 03-22-2012, 12:03 AM   #6
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My opinion is that if the two of you are going to be flying and learning aerobatics, you would regret buying a one place airplane. If both of you are going to be working on aerobatic maneuvers, it would be so much better to be able to fly together to help each other out. Also you know you will be wanting to give rides to others.

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Old 03-22-2012, 05:15 AM   #7
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I have owned both, both are a lot of fun, and both will get the job done. I enjoyed the -T more, I can't really explain why, it was just more fun to fly. (And I had a really light S-1S before that with a hopped up engine - that was my favorite.) The visibility out of the -B is better. The -T was a lot more comfortable with regards to seating position. The -T was less to own and operate. Less fuel, cheaper insurance. A good -T is very hard to find. They only made 60 of them give or take and there are fewer still available today. There are lots of -B's out there and a good one is much easier to find. Realistically you will spend $50K+ on a good -T and nearly double that for a good -B. That extra $50K buys a lot of gas, a lot of instruction, a new engine, a complete recover or a really nice Cub if you have to have 2 seats. 1 or 2 place is a personal choice. I enjoy flying alone and rarely take anyone for a ride in my -B. Some folks never fly alone - your choice. I don't have anything against taking people for rides, its just the way it seems to work out I guess. There is something inherently satisfying about flying a single seat airplane - it's just you and the plane. That was always fun, and you will never forget the first time you solo a single seat airplane. My next Pitts (currently under construction) is a single seater, and my follow on Pitts after that may very well be as well. If cost is a major consideration, don't rule out an Eagle, it's two place fun with costs only slightly more than the -T and much less than a good -B. I would not, however consider buying a new -T when there are so many other choices out there when talking that kind of money unless you are some kind of Saudi Shiek or a fanatical purist. Have something custom built for you if going that path.Edited by: Flybipe
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:31 AM   #8
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Very well said....
I love my S-2C but never had the chance to fly a single place Pitts yet. I also fly solo most of the time but like having the option to take someone with me. It is just so hard to get someone in the front ready to go. I can go make a flight and be back on the ground in the time it takes to get someone setup and strapped in the front. I would also highly recomend a Eagle. I am going to fly one for the first time this weekend. I have not spoke to anyone that owned an Eagle and didn't like it. Most people that have sold Eagles regret it.

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Old 03-22-2012, 01:43 PM   #9
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paulman21, there are two bits of information missing from your posts.

1. What is the intended purpose of the purchase? Competition, air shows or recreational?

2. Are you dead set against experimental aircraft?

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Old 03-23-2012, 10:01 PM   #10
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I was going to ask the same questions as smutnyif you want to have fun with 2 people and do some basic competitions why not think about an s-2a (if you do not want an experimental)? you have the same costs for fuel and engine maintence of an s-1 with two places.I have an s-2a and I like it very much; I've never flown an s-1 but I did the s-2b and in my opinion the s-2a is a bit better as handling, sort of lighter w.r.t. s-2b (s-2b fans please do not shoot at me!!!)
Alberto

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:41 AM   #11
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Thanks for the reply smutny. My father and I intend to compete in the Pitts and use it for the occasional recreational adventure. We aren't dead set against experimental aircraft, however we really don't know too much about them. Because of that my dad said he wants to stay away from them, but if you could offer some info (such as insurance costs etc.) that would be great. A 2-place seems like it might be a little too much for us cost-wise (unless we find an S2-A somewhere) so an experimental S1 may be the way we go.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:47 AM   #12
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Thanks for the reply Alberto. My father and I really liked the idea of an A but they seem to have disappeared from the classifieds. So if they start to pop back up again, who knows, we may end up with one.e

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #13
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Ok, that's what I figured but didn't want to assume.

Unless you have a second airplane or one of you is willing to drive to contests, you'll be better served with a two seater so you can both fly there together. As well as fly ins, $100 burgers, etc.

The Eagle is a great airplane with many of the key components built at the factory (like the fuselage) so there is very little variation between Eagles that were built to the kit specs. The Eagle and the S-2A are close relatives and either would be good up into Intermediate.

The S-2B is good up into Advanced, but as you have seen, acquisition and operating costs are higher.

Right now the best way to buy an acro plane is to let the world know you are looking. If you're ready to buy, sign up for the acro exploder.

A friend recently went through the process you are going through by surfing the classifieds. When he lost the second airplane by coming late to the party, he finally took my suggestion to announce on the exploder he was a cash in hand buyer. Within 24 hours he had five leads on airplanes that were not advertised anywhere. He just flew a sweet S-2B back home.

Come to think of it, I think there is a S-2A for sale from a local club member that he hasn't advertised for a couple months. If interested, I can verify and send an introductory email.Edited by: smutny

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Old 04-11-2012, 12:59 AM   #14
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Make sure that weight and balance wise,you and your dad will fit into a S-2A or B.
Edited by: snaffle
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:12 PM   #15
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Just curious, did you find the right Pitts to buy yet?

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Old 07-19-2012, 01:59 AM   #16
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Your insurance will vary with experience, I have very little Pitts time. I got insurance for $1700. But I also have 4200TT 2500 hours in jets, and 250 tail wheel. I got quotes from $1700 to $2500 and a bunch of declines.



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