ADS-B letter from FAA

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Skippy, Sep 28, 2018.

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  1. Sep 28, 2018 #1

    Skippy

    Skippy

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    I received a letter from the FAA that my ADS-B failed during a 13 min flight. It failed for Baro Alt, I remember that flight was definitely aerobatic in nature.

    Anyone else get one of these ?

    Pittsdriver posted something back in the day saying you have to provide the faa previous test reports that showed it work ?

    Can't find the thread it was discussed in.
     
  2. Sep 28, 2018 #2

    PittsDriver68

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    Send a reply stating that your flight was aerobatic. The FAA is getting so many problem reports that they are not sorting out the aerobatic flights. With your reply that your flight was aerobatic, the case should be closed.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
     
  3. Sep 28, 2018 #3

    Skippy

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    So what’s the future of this, fines for equipment not working post 2020?

    And is this letter more of a courtesy letting me know my equipment isn’t working or is this more like a case file has been opened on my tail number that I must reply to.
     
  4. Sep 28, 2018 #4

    IanJ

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    Until 2020, it can only be a courtesy reminder -- ADS-B is not required, and they want to encourage all the compliance they can get. Angering pilots over it now would be a foolish move on their part. That said, I suppose it could be a file-opening situation, but it seems unlikely.
     
  5. Sep 28, 2018 #5

    PittsDriver68

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    Please send a reply and you should be good. The FAA knows that their system does not work for acro. I know of nothing else to worry about.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
     
  6. Sep 29, 2018 #6

    saber25

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    I can't remember the last time I flew either the Pitts or my RV4 and didn't include some acro while airborne. In fact, recently a few of my buddies had completed a 14er climb on one of our massive ranges and I entertained them at 14000+ with smoke. Experienced climbers admitted it was one of their best bagged peaks ever. The only other traffic in sight was a lone airline in the high 30's and drawing a good contrail.

    I suppose with a 50% decrease in flying and pilot participation since the 80's, the FAA will have a much easier time tracking down all the non compliant flyers still remaining. I'm confident the ADS-B program will dramatically decrease the mid airs that we currently experience.

    Cynically and happily flying the Rocky Mountains,

    Cheers, Hans
     
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  7. Sep 29, 2018 #7

    Dave Baxter

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    So has anyone come up with an inexpensive ADS-B Unit that really works for our kind of single cockpit biplanes! My Avionics guy said not to buy any ADS-B equip until 2018! Well 2018 is almost over?

    Well I hope you are right I attended an ADS-B seminar at the Hood River antique fly-in, it was put on by Pacific Coast Avionics, by their shop manager, and he bandied about inexpensive installations in the $ 6 to $8000 range not all that inexpensive for many of us, I suspect? He also talked about the Sky Beacon, and that they have had a lot of problems with the system retransmitting xponder data information via wireless modes incorrectly, he said the inexpensive Garmin system about $1700.00 bucks that is hard wired in between the xponder and the antenna is a much better way to go. I am not a Garmin fan, mostly because they bought Apollo Morrow here locally in Oregon and like Micro Soft does,.... wants you to buy their latest and greatest box and will not service or update much of their older stuff. If that is not bad enough they have bought out or crushed almost all of their competition, currently they have a law suit pending against Sky beacon for patent infringement, not sure if it is valid or bogus? But for a small company to fight them in court, leaves the possibility if you buy one of their units, like many of us were planning to do they might not be in business if and when the law suit is settled? Have you noticed that there is almost no one else selling small GPS Units anymore, Garmin is the only one? Granted there is Aspen, Dynon and King to a lesser extent, but they sell mostly expensive stuff, none are small inexpensive GPS,s, and with no competition they can dictate and control everything! I do have a Galaxy pad, and installed on it is Avare, but with touch screens and wearing gloves in an open cockpit biplane presents several challenges, especially for and old guy that has struggled with computer literacy for some time?

    But to my main point, and what got my attention. The pacific coast guy said, currently installing and testing ADS-B units if you have issues and get flagged that your ADS-B system is not working properly and displaying inaccurate data, they like Ian said you just get a courtesy reminder, but after Jan 2020 if the same thing occurs you can face disciplinary action? Not sure about the offense and or multiple ones it would take? Fines certificate suspension? It ain't gonna be like a malfunction xponder and I don't think its going to be a courtesy reminder letting me know my equipment isn’t working, I think its going to be more like a case file has been opened on your tail number and that you must reply? I hope I am wrong, but the kinder gentler FAA mantra that has been bandied recently may just be all talk. At the Arlington fly-in back in July there was an FAA medical guy that put on a seminar about pilot medical issues, and because no one attended he went out in the aircraft display area and confronted several pilots, mostly about the basic med thing citing that it should have never been passed, in talking with him it was quite clear that he had disdain for the average pilot and felt that most especially older ones should not be flying period, citing their attention span and motor skills were not to the standards he thought they should be? I would have hated to have had my physical conducted by him, or any kind of review of my medical records, as I do not think I would still be flying!

    And as Hans commented for mid air collisions and the ability to avoid them, ADS-B In and out certainly is a big plus being able to see the targets, as in the old days of see and be seen, along with flight following when traffic is called out opposite direction your altitude type unknown! Having a working ADS-B unit would certainly be of value! I have always installed my radios intercom xponders and encoders, and have been very successful. I had planned on doing so with the ADS-B, and this will ad to the challenge, and with a home built I can do so, but it will not be for the faint of heart, and appears that if my unit has or continues to have issues after Jan 2020, being an old guy might not be what takes me out of the air? Dave
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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  8. Sep 29, 2018 #8

    cashflyer

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    Dave - I think this is going to be the most universal, easiest to install option:
    https://uavionix.com/products/tailbeacon/

    Yes, Garmin has filed a suit against the uAvionix company but the company claims that it uses a different methodology than Garmin and hopefully the suit will be dismissed.
     
  9. Sep 29, 2018 #9

    williamnear

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    Yeah, I received one of those letter by Certified Mail from the FAA. Getting a certified letter from the FAA will definitely increase your pucker factor. I contacted the local FSDO (Tampa in my case) and spoke with them. They were pleasant and non-threatening. I eventually ended up taking my plane to an avionics shop in Lakeland, FL (Gulf Coast Avionics) where they solved the problem. Apparently it just needed to have some configurations changed. They monitored my plane when I departed and emailed me the test results indicating all was good. If you’re the technical type, you could probably do it yourself but I’m not that technical with respect to avionics unless it’s printed in simple step-by-step instructions hopefully with lots of pictures. It really wasn’t a big deal. I suspect the FAA is trying to get us all up to speed before 2020
     
  10. Sep 29, 2018 #10

    dcstrng

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    Am beginning to think that the way to go is back to total non-electric, hand prop and drop out of the conversation altogether except for stuff that can be powered by AAA batteries… won’t work for you big guys, but the notion of putting a $8K technogizmo on the panel of a $10K homebuilt borders on unconscionable…
     
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  11. Sep 29, 2018 #11

    TFF1

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    If you do claim aerobatics as a defense, make sure you are in good airspace because they know where you were. Non electrical planes are the way to go. Non electrical means no alternator or generator. You can have a starter and a battery just not charge it. I would be inclined to buy the wing or tail mout unit even with the lawsuit. What is in the field is in the field unless they wright an AD against them. More worried about companies staying around after the rush.
     
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  12. Sep 29, 2018 #12

    saber25

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    "I'm confident the ADS-B program will dramatically decrease the mid airs that we currently experience".

    Actually I'm being quite cynical with this statement. The dramatic reduction in flying the past four decades would have the effect of less air traffic in the skies especially below FL 180. According to authorities, mid airs are at the bottom of the list of ten items that kill pilots and passengers. LOC is a much bigger problem and that might be aided by increased flying activity and currency and right now the ADS-B fiasco will probably inhibit increased flying.

    Based on hundreds of posts concerning this years Fisk arrival at OSH, we probably witnessed the highest density of small aircraft ever to assemble without a formation flight briefing being conducted. Whether by luck or conspicuous awareness, this mass arrival did not suffer a mid air and if ever there was a place ripe for accident, this was it. I tend to think in this instance the heightened awareness and heads on a swivel with eyeballs out was the deciding factor.

    Cheers, Hans
     
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  13. Sep 29, 2018 #13

    Mach2

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    Indeed, LOC is the #2. CFIT is number one.

    With regard to ADS-B, certainly some increased safety will be realized as a result of it, but it's important to understand that it's not intended as an update to the system for your safety.
    It, along with CPDLC, are the first stages of the FAA's movement OUT of direct air traffic control and into an automated "monitoring" role.
     
  14. Sep 29, 2018 #14

    jwhardin

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    After a flight go to https://adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx and follow the instructions. You'll quickly get a report back from the FAA that will tell you if your ADS-B system is in compliance. It may not do any good for aerobatic flights but works really great for general flights. I tried it back in August and found that my mode S xponder was xmitting the right tail number but my ADS-B out had a different tail number. It was easily corrected over the phone with the shop that supplied my ADS-B unit. If you're ADS-B equipped it is a cheap way to make sure everything is in compliance. Have fun and fly safe.

    Bill
     
  15. Sep 29, 2018 #15

    jrs14855

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    IIRC if you have a transponder installed it must be turned on. But if you don't bust a TFR who is going to catch you if the transponder is not turned on. Mode S transponder will give your aircraft info to ATC, mode C will not. So don't get a mode C and for acro turn everything off.
    The big benefit for the Garmin box is that it will work with many mode C transponders. The high dollar quotes are for mode S transponders with ADS B out.
     
  16. Sep 30, 2018 #16

    EAABipe40FF

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    Jim, did you mean don't get a mode S?
     
  17. Sep 30, 2018 #17

    Scratch1

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    O.K. Guys I`m going to throw a conspiracy theory at ya, my hangar buddy states all ads-b amounts to is a way for the feds to send us a bill for using federal airspace. the collision avoidance B.S. is just a way to slide the usage-meter in under a different guise....Thoughts, ,comments???
     
  18. Sep 30, 2018 #18

    TFF1

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    It will in time. Idea is to keep GA out of B/C airspace. Use a controller, pay the man. Pay as you go. I bet in the next ten years after 2020. Make it more like Europe.
     
  19. Sep 30, 2018 #19

    jwhardin

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    Darn, I forgot to mention in my last that I'm sitting under Class B airspace so I'm stuck with having to comply. Such is life in the big city, eh.
    Bill
     
  20. Sep 30, 2018 #20

    cleko

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    If you have non-mode S and UAT out that supports anonymous mode, you can operate without xmitting N number or 24 bit code. This assumes you are not on a flight plan or requesting ATC services.
     
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