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The comment was made in the Biplanes For Sale thread about getting your money back when you decided to sell. Things have really changed in aircraft value over the last dozen yrs or so, what was a good deal 10 yrs ago, may not be the same today?
As for getting your money back in this day and age with ADS-B, Drones, raising Insurance premiums , Hanger rent and Aircraft parts increases it is going to be much more challenging to not only build, but also to fly the airplanes we currently own. Today there are more airplanes for sale than pilots to buy them. Its not just Stardusters who's value has diminished many other airplanes suffer the same fate. Most notably all of the single place airplanes especially those from back in the day suffer the same or even a worse fate, and even if someone gives you an airplane or project it may not be such a good deal. I check in with Barnstormers almost every day and see the same planes for sale over and over and not many are moving. Most all will agree that the need for pilots is the real story, that along with the value of the dollar, being much less than it was 20 yrs ago, is also a big part of the dilemma we face today.
The reason the Starduster is not as appealing as say the Skybolt are two fold. Why is one so much more valuable than the other they are basically much the same?
(One) For the Starduster their is no support and no company that exists to make and sell the parts and pieces that were once available much less someone to ask questions. When Bill Clouse sold the rights to A/C Spruce he was assured by Jim Irwin that the airplane would continued to be supported, especially with some of the hard to get parts. But About all one can get these days are plans and the material to build, but little more. Don Adamson of 92nd West Aviation has acquired many of the fixtures the company once had. This has filled some of that void, so it can still be done. In Defense of Irwin and Spruce, it becomes a business decision, for them to tool up or ask vendors to make one of a kind specialty parts when only one or two new airplanes of the type fly each year.
(Two) the Starduster was never designed for competition aerobatics, if Lou Stolp was still alive he would tell you it was designed as a weekend sport biplane, is it capable of aerobatics yes, that is why it is a 6 G airplane, as he knew what people were going to do with it! He once told me that almost everyone he ever knew that flew airshow or competition aerobatics were no longer with us, with the exception of Art Scholl and it was only several yrs after that conversation he was gone. I am an advocate of basic aerobatics for proficiency, one should be able to roll loop and spin his airplane and have the ability confidence and expectation to perform those and recover the airplane.
By contrast the Skybolt was designed from the get go to be an aerobatic airplane, the wings are Pitts like, and the fuselage like many contemporary biplanes of the day Its like Lou Stolp once said, I never designed the Starduster everything was there for the taking, all I did was put it together in the right package.
The Skybolt was designed for aerobatics, granted it and the Pitts have been and continue to be modified and improved as each year goes by, and the Skybolt is considered to be a good basic two place aerobatic mount.
The other positive for the Skybolt is the company Steen Aero Lab in Florida is in existence currently where one can not only buy almost any part and piece needed, there are also several people that can answer most any question about building and flying the airplane.
This in my observation as to why the Skybolt's value is worth several thousand dollars more than the Starduster.
I never built any of the five biplanes I've built to sell or make a profit I did it because I wanted to. The SA-100 I am currently working on is two fold. I did it because I wanted to, but also as an old guy, you have to have something going on it your life, a reason the get up and a place to go, if not your chances of living to a ripe old age diminishes rather quickly especially if you no longer have something to stimulate and agitate them old brain cells and keep you interested and focused. They say even if one is predisposed for Alzheimer's they avoid getting it if..... they had some sort of direction and purpose going on in their life, not just home and family. But there is also a sort of personal sense of accomplishment and satisfaction in actually building. So building a biplane and all of the challenges it entails even in today's world can certainly be beneficial and fill that void.
We us pilots are a very small part of the equation at less than 1 percent of the population, and as such are in a very small and select group of those actually doing something rather than trying to text on their smart phones. Just my view, and nothing more. Dave
As for getting your money back in this day and age with ADS-B, Drones, raising Insurance premiums , Hanger rent and Aircraft parts increases it is going to be much more challenging to not only build, but also to fly the airplanes we currently own. Today there are more airplanes for sale than pilots to buy them. Its not just Stardusters who's value has diminished many other airplanes suffer the same fate. Most notably all of the single place airplanes especially those from back in the day suffer the same or even a worse fate, and even if someone gives you an airplane or project it may not be such a good deal. I check in with Barnstormers almost every day and see the same planes for sale over and over and not many are moving. Most all will agree that the need for pilots is the real story, that along with the value of the dollar, being much less than it was 20 yrs ago, is also a big part of the dilemma we face today.
The reason the Starduster is not as appealing as say the Skybolt are two fold. Why is one so much more valuable than the other they are basically much the same?
(One) For the Starduster their is no support and no company that exists to make and sell the parts and pieces that were once available much less someone to ask questions. When Bill Clouse sold the rights to A/C Spruce he was assured by Jim Irwin that the airplane would continued to be supported, especially with some of the hard to get parts. But About all one can get these days are plans and the material to build, but little more. Don Adamson of 92nd West Aviation has acquired many of the fixtures the company once had. This has filled some of that void, so it can still be done. In Defense of Irwin and Spruce, it becomes a business decision, for them to tool up or ask vendors to make one of a kind specialty parts when only one or two new airplanes of the type fly each year.
(Two) the Starduster was never designed for competition aerobatics, if Lou Stolp was still alive he would tell you it was designed as a weekend sport biplane, is it capable of aerobatics yes, that is why it is a 6 G airplane, as he knew what people were going to do with it! He once told me that almost everyone he ever knew that flew airshow or competition aerobatics were no longer with us, with the exception of Art Scholl and it was only several yrs after that conversation he was gone. I am an advocate of basic aerobatics for proficiency, one should be able to roll loop and spin his airplane and have the ability confidence and expectation to perform those and recover the airplane.
By contrast the Skybolt was designed from the get go to be an aerobatic airplane, the wings are Pitts like, and the fuselage like many contemporary biplanes of the day Its like Lou Stolp once said, I never designed the Starduster everything was there for the taking, all I did was put it together in the right package.
The Skybolt was designed for aerobatics, granted it and the Pitts have been and continue to be modified and improved as each year goes by, and the Skybolt is considered to be a good basic two place aerobatic mount.
The other positive for the Skybolt is the company Steen Aero Lab in Florida is in existence currently where one can not only buy almost any part and piece needed, there are also several people that can answer most any question about building and flying the airplane.
This in my observation as to why the Skybolt's value is worth several thousand dollars more than the Starduster.
I never built any of the five biplanes I've built to sell or make a profit I did it because I wanted to. The SA-100 I am currently working on is two fold. I did it because I wanted to, but also as an old guy, you have to have something going on it your life, a reason the get up and a place to go, if not your chances of living to a ripe old age diminishes rather quickly especially if you no longer have something to stimulate and agitate them old brain cells and keep you interested and focused. They say even if one is predisposed for Alzheimer's they avoid getting it if..... they had some sort of direction and purpose going on in their life, not just home and family. But there is also a sort of personal sense of accomplishment and satisfaction in actually building. So building a biplane and all of the challenges it entails even in today's world can certainly be beneficial and fill that void.
We us pilots are a very small part of the equation at less than 1 percent of the population, and as such are in a very small and select group of those actually doing something rather than trying to text on their smart phones. Just my view, and nothing more. Dave
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