• The Biplane Forum is a large global active community of biplane builders, owners and pilots. From Pitts to Skybolts, to older barnstormers, all types are welcome. In addition to our active community, our content boasts exhaustive technical information which is often sought after for projects and maintenance. This information has accumulated over the 12+ years the forum has been in existence.

    The Biplane Forum is a private community. Subscriptions are only $29.95/year to gain access to this great community and unmatched source of information not found anywhere else on the web. We are also a great resource for non biplane users, since many GA aircraft are built the same way (fabric and tube construction).

  • If you have bought, sold or gained information from our Classifieds, please donate to Biplane Forum and give back.

    You can become a Supporting Member which comes with a decal or just click here to donate.

Black softie mini parachute

Status
Not open for further replies.

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
Solid black softie mini with conventional harness. 2004 container and 1994 Glidepath Sharpshooter canopy. Rated to 254 lbs. Comes with carry bag.
$900 [email protected]
 
Last edited:

rmarshall234

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
260
Reaction score
34
What kind of parachute is a Sharpshooter?

Or more to the point....do you even know??
 

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
Yes it is a 245 sq ft reserve canopy that is rated up to 254 pounds. Mainly used by the skydiving crowd.
This chute belonged to a guy who owned a skydiving outfit. It was his emergency chute he wore when he took skydivers up in his plane....
Anything else? You knew that....
 

rmarshall234

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
260
Reaction score
34
[Anything else?]

Anything else?? Sure, since you asked. How about mentioning the fact that a Sharpchuter is a {Square} parachute and therefore requires specific training and knowledge for its use. Here are a few excerpts from the owners manual…


NEVER USE THIS EQUIPMENT UNLESS YOU HAVE:
A. READ THIS WARNING LABEL AND COMPLETED A "CONTROLLED PROGRAM OF
INSTRUCTION" IN THE USE OF THIS PARACHUTE ASSEMBLY.
--OR--
B. READ THIS WARNING LABEL AND ALL APPROPRIATE OWNER/FLIGHT
MANUALS, PACKING INSTRUCTIONS AND COMPLETED AT LEAST 100 RAM AIR
PARACHUTE JUMPS.
4. A properly deployed and functioning canopy can be controlled with
the control toggles by simply pulling down on the right toggle to turn right
or pulling down on the left toggle to turn left. As long as one toggle is
pulled down further than the other toggle the canopy will continue to turn in
the direction of the lowest toggle. The further the toggle is pulled down,
the faster the turn will be. Stalls and turns should be executed only when
altitude permits time to recover from the maneuver and altitude to perform a
smooth, controlled final approach and landing. WARNING! No stalls below
500 feet, and no turns should be done below 200 feet. (Except for minor
course corrections on final approach.)
7. If an emergency situation has left you with no time to release the
brakes, it is possible to control the canopy by pulling down on the rear
risers. The canopy will turn in the direction of the riser being pulled
downward. However, you must be very cautious when attempting a flared
landing with the rear risers, particularly when the brakes are still set.
WARNING! A riser flare can produce a very sudden stall, and it only takes
a few inches of pulling to cause a stall! For this reason, the rear riser-flare
should only be attempted in an emergency situation.

You might also want to mention that the preponderance of maiming’s and deaths while using a square parachute are the result of turning too close to the ground. Just as in flying, every parachute ride ends in a successful (or not) landing. It would suck to survive an emergency bailout only to find yourself in a new life-threatening situation because you bought the wrong (cheap) parachute. Then there are the finer points - which I won’t get into here but by way of example: is it a Sharpchuter 245 or a Sharpchuter 245 “R”? One is TSO’d for emergency use.

It would seem to me that if you are going to keep returning to this forum (at least 2 years now that I know of) to profit off the common ignorance (and I don’t mean that in a bad way towards us pilots) regarding parachute equipment you would do one of two things:

1. Make a greater effort to provide full disclosure so that someone does not find themselves in a compromised situation as a result of one of your sales.

Or (and I honestly believe this is the applicable one)..

2. Go educate yourself and get a Riggers ticket so you can safely represent your products.

And to answer your question of “why do I care”? I care because I have dedicated much of my adult life to training and educating people so they can more safely operate in a high-risk activity. And like most of the other good people in this industry - we are not doing it for the money.

HOWEVER….I am now done fighting this battle of trying to educate/protect the readers of this forum in this regard. You can have your way in this Classifieds section. Or, the Mods can determine what to do next. One final point so that the rest of our readership understands my qualifications as I recently presented to you in response to another abusive pm…
· 35 years of skydiving experience
· 3500 square and 100 round parachute jumps
· 13 years of experience as a professional skydiving Instructor
· 4 emergency parachute rides
· A&P/IA
· Senior Parachute Rigger - Back and Seat

If all this sounds a little harsh to the average reader I will simply respond by saying, I've seen way too much carnage to not speak out. Good day.
 

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
If I didn't know this rig had a special canopy I would not have put that in the listing now would I? I never tried to push this rig as a standard emergency rig. There are many experienced skydivers here and this chute will be the perfect one for the right person. I have 5 other chutes for sale now with standard emergency canopies so I explain what I have when people contact me. Now go get in someone else's business.
 

andrewrichards

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
582
Reaction score
92
[Anything else?]

Anything else?? Sure, since you asked. How about mentioning the fact that a Sharpchuter is a {Square} parachute and therefore requires specific training and knowledge for its use. Here are a few excerpts from the owners manual…

NEVER USE THIS EQUIPMENT UNLESS YOU HAVE:
A. READ THIS WARNING LABEL AND COMPLETED A "CONTROLLED PROGRAM OF
INSTRUCTION" IN THE USE OF THIS PARACHUTE ASSEMBLY.
--OR--
B. READ THIS WARNING LABEL AND ALL APPROPRIATE OWNER/FLIGHT
MANUALS, PACKING INSTRUCTIONS AND COMPLETED AT LEAST 100 RAM AIR
PARACHUTE JUMPS.
4. A properly deployed and functioning canopy can be controlled with
the control toggles by simply pulling down on the right toggle to turn right
or pulling down on the left toggle to turn left. As long as one toggle is
pulled down further than the other toggle the canopy will continue to turn in
the direction of the lowest toggle. The further the toggle is pulled down,
the faster the turn will be. Stalls and turns should be executed only when
altitude permits time to recover from the maneuver and altitude to perform a
smooth, controlled final approach and landing. WARNING! No stalls below
500 feet, and no turns should be done below 200 feet. (Except for minor
course corrections on final approach.)
7. If an emergency situation has left you with no time to release the
brakes, it is possible to control the canopy by pulling down on the rear
risers. The canopy will turn in the direction of the riser being pulled
downward. However, you must be very cautious when attempting a flared
landing with the rear risers, particularly when the brakes are still set.
WARNING! A riser flare can produce a very sudden stall, and it only takes
a few inches of pulling to cause a stall! For this reason, the rear riser-flare
should only be attempted in an emergency situation.

You might also want to mention that the preponderance of maiming’s and deaths while using a square parachute are the result of turning too close to the ground. Just as in flying, every parachute ride ends in a successful (or not) landing. It would suck to survive an emergency bailout only to find yourself in a new life-threatening situation because you bought the wrong (cheap) parachute. Then there are the finer points - which I won’t get into here but by way of example: is it a Sharpchuter 245 or a Sharpchuter 245 “R”? One is TSO’d for emergency use.

It would seem to me that if you are going to keep returning to this forum (at least 2 years now that I know of) to profit off the common ignorance (and I don’t mean that in a bad way towards us pilots) regarding parachute equipment you would do one of two things:

1. Make a greater effort to provide full disclosure so that someone does not find themselves in a compromised situation as a result of one of your sales.

Or (and I honestly believe this is the applicable one)..

2. Go educate yourself and get a Riggers ticket so you can safely represent your products.

And to answer your question of “why do I care”? I care because I have dedicated much of my adult life to training and educating people so they can more safely operate in a high-risk activity. And like most of the other good people in this industry - we are not doing it for the money.

HOWEVER….I am now done fighting this battle of trying to educate/protect the readers of this forum in this regard. You can have your way in this Classifieds section. Or, the Mods can determine what to do next. One final point so that the rest of our readership understands my qualifications as I recently presented to you in response to another abusive pm…
· 35 years of skydiving experience
· 3500 square and 100 round parachute jumps
· 13 years of experience as a professional skydiving Instructor
· 4 emergency parachute rides
· A&P/IA
· Senior Parachute Rigger - Back and Seat

If all this sounds a little harsh to the average reader I will simply respond by saying, I've seen way too much carnage to not speak out. Good day.
Very harsh. I dont see it any different than someone advertising an aircraft. Shawn sells some good stuff, good prices and usually offers them to forum readers first. Ive never heard of any complaints but ive only been a forum member since 2007.

Like buying an aircraft, if you dont do your research or have no experience then ask. A buyer is only ignorant if they dont get informed themseves.
 
Last edited:

PittsDriver68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
5,274
Reaction score
1,731
Location
NH16
I will suggest that having a guy who does not have a rigger credential or any actual parachuting experience selling emergency parachutes is sort of like seeing a guy who has never flown an airplane and had any sort of pilot certificate selling airplanes.

The problem is that folks who know nothing about parachutes are buying from someone who knows very little. And a parachute is a life saving device that when not properly used will not do its intended job. Now Mr Pigpen seems like a nice guy but in truth, and please take this comment humorously, but having the lame selling to the halt might not always be a good thing.

Square parachutes in pilot emergency rigs are a real hazard for the unprepared. I too have made almost 1700 jumps on both round and square parachutes and would never suggest that an untrained individual use a square in an emergency situation. With a round parachute, once it is open if the wearer does nothing until they touch the ground there is a very good chance that they will bounce and walk or limp away. With a square, if you do nothing you can be seriously injured or die. If you do the wrong thing you can be seriously injured or die. Really. I have personally seen an individual do a very simple wrong thing under a square, spiral into the ground and die. So those of us who have real experience have strong feelings. You only die once and it might be agonizing an painful.

So if you are having a really crappy day and you have to step away from your airplane in flight, the rest of your day should be less stressful. A round parachute makes that more likely.

Now it is very likely that the original owner of the rig was very cavalier about the square parachute since he wanted to trade it quickly for $$. As a skydiver I can report that most are emotionally stuck at about age 17 when it comes to personal responsibility. So now we see the rig posted here and this discussion.

All of this said, the square reserve can be pulled out of the container and sold to a skydiver, and I am sure that Dan Terasevich at Softie would be happy to sell a Preserve I round parachute to replace it for use by a pilot. In fact, the Softie harness and containers are OK to have a Strong or National parachute in them. So pick your favorite.

I hope that this post seems reasonable and rational. Those of us with lots of real experience are concerned about someone getting hurt. If you think that it can not happen to you, then please skip to the next topic in the forum.

Best of luck,

Wes
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
1680 intentional jumps and 7 reserve rides 14 hours of free fall
Pitts pilot - because I can 600+hrs and counting
Old grumpy guy with a 1000 jump limp
 
Last edited:

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
Well I know at least one of my customers is happy. Ask Jim Gross on here. I sold him a chute and he used it about a month after I sold it to him when his biplane broke. He also thanked my rigger John Storrie..

On another page. Mr. rmarshall started this whole mess with me last month telling me I didn't know what I was talking about trying to sell a 20 year old chute. Now he can't leave it be because I proved him wrong.
Well I have a Softie mini right now with a 1992 canopy and it was repacked a couple of weeks ago at the para-phernalia (Softie factory). So there goes the 20 year life limit out the window!
 

PittsDriver68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
5,274
Reaction score
1,731
Location
NH16
Very interesting that the folks at Paraphernalia repacked the rig.

There is no regulatory life limit on nylon parachutes. Strong says they have no life limit. FFE and Paraphernalia, and National advise replacement of the parachute after a number of years but that is advice and not regulatory. Parachutes are repacked after a thorough condition inspection. If no defects are found then you repack it.

I have some customers who bring in rigs that were built in the 1970's. I look at those rigs really really hard but have not found a reason to tag them as unairworthy yet. I have a parachute in my shop that was given to me by the former chief designer for Piper Aircraft. Jim did not need the parachute any more. It was worn by a bunch of Piper test pilots. Built in 1954. Have no need for it so on my todo list is to cut out a sample of fabric and put it on a calibrated industrial strength tester. Measure the strength of the fabric and compare it to the spec for that fabric.

With all of that, I will suggest that arguing about parachute life is like arguing about the map of the backside of the moon. Pointless. Go get real data. One success does not prove the point one way or another. And this discussion is about real people living or not, not about debating points.

Reading these posts, I think that Mr Pigpen will have a much better appreciation of the product he is selling if he steps out of an airplane at 13,000 ft knowing that his life depends on the nylon folded up on his back.

Best of luck,

Wes
 

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
Well I would not have that chute on my back unless it has been inspected by my trusty rigger...
I am not a skydiver so I have no interest in jumping out of a airplane unless I am forced to. I may not even do it then?
I wear a chute mainly because I carry passengers and we have to wear them to be legal.
Honestly I think if I flew a single place Pitts I wouldn't even wear a chute. Everyone has their own opinion on this just like wearing a helmet on a motorcycle or a seatbelt in a car.
 

PittsDriver68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
5,274
Reaction score
1,731
Location
NH16
You don't have to make a parachute jump, but your opinions about parachutes will carry a little more authority if you do. I survived almost 1700 jumps back when parachutes were less reliable than they are now. Anyone can make one.

It is unlikely that the average pilot will ever use a parachute just like the average motorcyclist will never have their helmet contact the pavement with their head in it. But when the odd guy really really needs their parachute, its not a video game, its not virtual reality, its real life and death. So ethically and conscienciously it is our obligation as responsible adults to approach the subject and the gear with real care, knowledge, and attention to detail. I knew good men who died because of lack of attention to the details of their parachute. If I sold someone a parachute that was not right for them, they used it, and were paralyzed for life or died, I would have a pretty hard time looking at myself in the mirror every morning.

Be safe,

Wes
 

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
Well whoever buys this chute will know exactly what they are buying. Did I ever try to hide anything here? I do not believe I did? Maybe I am missing something?
 
Last edited:

Lotahp1

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
4,224
Reaction score
874
Hmmm. I'm missing something. I buy used "stuff" by the description and MY OWN knowledge on what I'm buying. Mr Pigpen likes to flip parachutes and GPS systems. He shows pictures, gives a description of what he had for sale and a price. It's up to the buyer to ask the questions and have knowledge of what they are buying. If you want a warranty, someone with great knowledge of the product they are selliing and no unknowns of where it was before. , who used it etc etc. Buy New...that way you can know exactly what you get and sleep better...I guess
 

PittsDriver68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
5,274
Reaction score
1,731
Location
NH16
I generally agree, but ignorance of GPS systems won't send you to the hospital where ignorance of parachutes can send you to the hospital or the morgue.

Pilots are generally not informed consumers of parachute equipment and there has been a real debate going on for some time now about the wisdom of square parachutes in pilot emergency rigs. I would like for pilots to be more informed consumers but many seem to think that all parachutes are the same and so the low price ones are as good as the higher priced ones and the only difference between a square and a round are the corners.

So the current thinking is that a pilot should make a parachute jump before seriously thinking about having a square parachute on their back. Which kills most sales.

Or to put it another way, this is one topic where putting $$ first has serious moral and ethical issues. A buyer may choose to buy gear that is not good for them, but perhaps the seller should not actively encourage taking that risk like as if there are no consequences.

Flipping GPS's to support your airplane habit - great. Flipping parachutes - be more careful. Have you ever had to look a new widow in the eye? I have.

Best of luck,

Wes
 

smizo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
7,300
Reaction score
4,947
I generally agree, but ignorance of GPS systems won't send you to the hospital where ignorance of parachutes can send you to the hospital or the morgue.

Best of luck,

Wes
Except for the Cherokee six driver and his friend that went into the woods at our airport several years ago trying to use his 296 to line up for the rwy in severe fog. That was a sight I never want to see again.

I just read this whole thread.......

Shawn, these guys really do mean well. This topic is getting heated and that's because these guys have seen their share of bad $h!t. They have strong opinions because it, in reality, could save a life. I won't weigh in any of my personal opinions but will say I have around 1500 skydives, 1000 of which on sub 100sqft hp canopies. These guys do really mean the best and I'm sorry this thread got heated and people upset. Looking in from the outside there are very very few arguments on this forum, lets keep it that way friends.....
 

pigpenracing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,330
Reaction score
644
Its all good. Like I said from the beginning. I listed what canopy is in this rig and will tell anyone interested exactly what it is before I sell it. I have another black mini that has the standard round preserve 1 canopy that can be had also. I understand what these guys are saying about needing a few jumps before using a square chute. I already discussed this with my 2 parachute guys I deal with regularly. Don Mayer and John Storrie... They both gave me a good understanding. Now If I tell someone exactly what they are buying and they need training it is up to them if they should buy it or not.

On another note. What if I sell someone a Garmin 696 and they take off with it. Now they are puzzled on how to use it and get lost on the wrong screen. Now they are lost and run out of fuel and go down. Is this my fault? Kinda the same deal right.

What if I sell someone my Honda Civic with a 4 banger and 5 speed. The new buyer pays me, gets in and dies out in the middle of the street and gets hit by a 18 wheeler. Is that my fault that they didn't have proper training on driving a standard? NO.... I would feel bad but I would not be liable.

I could go on all day... If you are that worried about this Wes just paypal me $900 and the chute can be yours and everyone will stay safe.
Someones life isn't worth $900 to you? Since you say I am going to kill someone with this rig.
 

andrewrichards

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
582
Reaction score
92
Except for the Cherokee six driver and his friend that went into the woods at our airport several years ago trying to use his 296 to line up for the rwy in severe fog. That was a sight I never want to see again.

I just read this whole thread.......

Shawn, these guys really do mean well. This topic is getting heated and that's because these guys have seen their share of bad $h!t. They have strong opinions because it, in reality, could save a life. I won't weigh in any of my personal opinions but will say I have around 1500 skydives, 1000 of which on sub 100sqft hp canopies. These guys do really mean the best and I'm sorry this thread got heated and people upset. Looking in from the outside there are very very few arguments on this forum, lets keep it that way friends.....
I agree with Smizo, it seems the opinions are well intended but really dont feel rmarshall's approach was in the spirit of the forum, from an outsider view it seemed to be a setup and got personal. Maybe the approach could be a little different and a little more constructive.

There is a lot of experience and valued opinions out there. Shawn is selling something, I also feel the individual looking has an obligation to seek out information and opinions then make an informed decision about the purchase. No different to buying a donkey really.

I also think it is valuable that people with experience chime in and offer their opinions in a constructive way, similar.to when we have forum memebers looking for advice on an aircraft purchase. Ive never seen people offering aircraft for sale on the forum slammed like this. Opinions will also differ. Even look at some other forums about this particular chute differ in the jump community (no idea what its called). Debate is good, just don't make it personal.

I have zero jumps (too scary for me) and have only worn a chute a few times when i've there has been a requirement my opinion would be worthless except maybe the colour. Ive sold a few that came with aircraft I've purchased over the years, just posted an ad, got some calls, gave all the details the potential purchaser sought, got some cash and shipped it.
 

smizo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
7,300
Reaction score
4,947
And I'm not saying Shawn is in the wrong either, he makes some good points lets just keep it civil shall we....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top