Flew my S1C for the first time today

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by kevinschutz, Sep 3, 2018.

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  1. Sep 3, 2018 #1

    kevinschutz

    kevinschutz

    kevinschutz

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    After about 2 hours taxiing, doing runs down the runway with the tail up, I decided I could keep in the runway enough to go fly, didn’t like the first takeoff attempt so lined back off and took off ,flew for 45 minutes and decided it was time to come in before dark. 27 touchdowns, 2 go around, I finally had a comfortable line set it down stayed in the runway and taxied back to the hanger no damage done

    Can’t wait for tomorrow so I can do it again.
    Just wondering do bounces go into the logbook as a take off and a landing?
     
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  2. Sep 3, 2018 #2

    PG-

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    Congratulations!
    Good for you, I still remember my 1st S-1C landings....
     
  3. Sep 3, 2018 #3

    Larry Lyons

    Larry Lyons

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    Love it, if I was counting bounces with my spring gear I’d probably have about 200 take offs and pushing 10,000 landings! :rolleyes:
     
  4. Sep 3, 2018 #4

    EAABipe40FF

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    My first was one of my best. My mentor's plan for me was to make progressively lower slightly circular/slipping approaches/go arounds with a landing when it felt good.

    I suspect based on your method that you must have considerable tail wheel experience. One usually doesn't make successful tail up runs w/o it?

    Jack
     
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  5. Sep 4, 2018 #5

    kevinschutz

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    Thank you all, I had 100 and some hours in a cub and used to go left main right main both mains to increase skill, as much as I thought it would help IT DIDN’T the Pitts does what you tell it when you tell it, but I am going to keep at it, Do any of you know where I can find entry speeds and technique for basic aerobatics very entry level stuff
     
  6. Sep 4, 2018 #6

    StinsonPilot

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    Congrats!
     
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  7. Sep 4, 2018 #7

    TFF1

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    Very cool.
     
  8. Sep 4, 2018 #8

    grassroots

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    Congrats on the new S-1C. Based on your entry speeds question, have you had some acro training yet? Strongly suggest getting full acro spin training IN a Pitts with somebody like Danny Bond or Bill Finagin if you haven't already. If you're in the OKV area, neither of them are too far from you. The only entry speed you really need to be concerned with is max snap roll speed. The book says 140mph but few actually use that. I'd suggest more like 120. Regarding entry speeds for the basic figures, don't worry about it. The Pitts will do everything from cruise flight. You will quickly figure out what works in your airplane, for the way you fly. There is a very wide range of entry speeds that can be used for the basic figures. If you want the figures to look nice, that's another matter, but for fun flopping around it doesn't matter at all. If you want to draw nice looking figures, you will learn from coaching/critiquing that entry speed is only half of it. How many G's you pull matters too. Airspeed and G are interdependent.

    Regarding where to find technique info, get Alan Cassidy's book 'Better Aerobatics'. IMO, by far the best acro book out there. Covers beginning through advanced acro. Have fun.
     
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  9. Sep 5, 2018 #9

    gha111

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    FYI. When I took Pitts training from Budd Davisson, the one thing he was very emphatic about was "no high speed taxi with the tail up". Also, I can't remember where I read it, but there's an article by some instructor pilot who gave training to 2 Pitts pilots that had both been doing hammerheads and both had gotten a little past the vertical and their Pitts had gone into a violent inverted spin that they both almost didn't make it out of. The instructors training was just how get out of that situation. Might be worth some research.
    Garry
     
  10. Sep 5, 2018 #10

    grassroots

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    Yes, folks tend to want to do this to "ease" their way into flying the airplane and getting a feel for it due to lack of confidence/experience in type, but don't realize that it takes more skill to do this safely than to just get the plane quickly into the air, fly a pattern, and make a normal landing. They are actually increasing, not decreasing the risk of an incident. Lots of mishaps have happened from high speed tail up taxiing. The tendency is to get the tail up with a lot of forward stick with partial power, hold it there at a certain speed, then chop the power with the tail still up before running out of runway. Folks then get caught by the lack of rudder authority in that transition period with the tail up after chopping power. Better to get proper training, and on that first time out quickly push the throttle full and fly the thing.
     
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  11. Sep 5, 2018 #11

    Larry Lyons

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    I concur! As a very low time tail wheel pilot I did a lot of taxiing (hours!) but never lifted the tail. I found out quickly how much rudder authority you lost chopping the power. Damned near balled her up a couple of times just doing that. I learned to pull the power slowly. I did run her up to where she got light on her feet with the tail held down. That was fun but only did that on days where everything felt right and I was in front of, not behind the plane.
     
  12. Sep 5, 2018 #12

    gha111

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    Exactly! Now take it one more step so now you have the new Pitts pilot, hauling butt down the runway with the tail up. To do that successfully you have to push the stick forward as Grassroots mentions above. That is an unnatural act for a lot of pilots, so he doesn't put in enough pressure and all of a sudden he's airborne. Something he is mentally NOT prepared to do that day. Now the REAL fun begins, if he survives the coronary.
     
  13. Sep 6, 2018 #13

    stuntflyr

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    I got spin training before each season start when I was active in my S-1 by doing a series with Curt Langenhorst in an S-2B. Upright, inverted, normal, accelerated, flat and transition all in about 30 minutes. Best money spent for confidence, then did the whole series in my airplane to find out any differences or weird stuff. Easy to adapt right after a series with a high time acro/Pitts guy. Hes retired now but get high time, active instructor to spoil you up.
    When in doubt in a spin, look straight ahead down the cowling to see if your in an upright or inverted spin was the best advice I got.
    Have two pics of people I knew with the wreckage of their inverted S-1 spun-in in a field.
    Chris...
     
  14. Sep 6, 2018 #14

    EAABipe40FF

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    What happened to when in doubt,

    Throttle idle, center controls, when ASI shows 100, pull out.......?

    Jack
     
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  15. Sep 6, 2018 #15

    pigpenracing

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    Most of my Pitts takeoffs are 3 point takeoffs. I may lift the tail a little but not much. Every landing is 3 point.
    I agree you are taking a big chance of screwing up doing high speed tail up taxi!
     
  16. Sep 6, 2018 #16

    kevinschutz

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    Thank you for the concern and comments, I had 2 hours of S2 time, not a lot, but I got the jist a couple of spin recoveries and some loops, barrel rolls, and aileron rolls, the S2 was painful to fly in, I have restricted motion in my right hip and my knee being forced high and outside around the oil tank created much pain making it hard to concentrate.

    I am not new to tail wheel flying but am new to being the only one, in the plane, with my but dragging the asphalt a very different feel for speed and sight picture than the Cubs,Champ and huskies.

    I did notice that it takes 3/4 throttle to get the tail up and very little to keep it there. But full throttle gives immediate control. I was more worried about the rudder effects as you slowed down not on the run, turned out it was not an issue the plane does what you tell it

    After discussing my landings with my friend and fellow S1C pilot, what he made said makes sense he asked if I had the throttle at idle, I know that I pulled it and kept my hand on it, but it might have moved forward a touch, I am going out tonight to test that theory.
     
  17. Oct 21, 2018 #17

    kevinschutz

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    Hey guys
    Sorry for the long delay, I have been flying . That last time I flew the landing seemed to pop, everything felt, looked and sounded right . I did find that the throttle was hitting a bracket when at idle corrected that issue and the landings got much better. Then I had the minor inconvenience of cutting the end of my thumb off so it will be a couple of weeks before I fly the Pitts again. I am still flying my Bonanza.
     

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