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Parachute

gsviar

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If anyone has a Softie 304 Seat Pack that they want to sell, I would be interested.
 

pigpenracing

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The 304 is a strong chute. Most people like the softies better. Remember with a seatpack you have to leave the chute in the plane and climb into the chute. With a backpack you can put it on and jump right in. Which chutes do you have now?
 

nicko

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I jump into my plane with a seat pack already on without any problems
 

pigpenracing

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My legs must be short. I tried and drug the butt part of the pack all across my plane trying to get in. It pissed me off. Lol!
 

TxSkyBolt

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Sean,


Try stepping onto the rim of the seat pan instead of the seat pan center. That should give you an extra 4" of height.


Best regards,


Brad
 

pigpenracing

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I use a backpack chute now and it's all good. Got a seatpack in the front for passengers. The softie mini gave be bad back pains. I went to the softie wedge and it is perfect.
 

Beej

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Tis good form to not strap on a seat pack while in the plane...I know it's a lot easier, but muscle memory in times of stress can (it has happened) lend to unintentional release of the harness system on emergency egress; put simply, if you are used to getting out with a seat pack on, you'll leave the plane with it on during a stressful bailout.

I don't have a cat in hells chance of using a much desired back pack, even if I was skinny...one's face is already in the instrument panel, so seat pack and a clunky climb-in is my only option.
 

pigpenracing

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Yep. The seatpack was my only option in the Skybolt with my big belly. Lol! The s-2c has WAY more room than the bolt did so the backpack works.
 

TxSkyBolt

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jgnunn said:
Tis good form to not strap on a seat pack while in the plane...I know it's a lot easier, but muscle memory in times of stress can (it has happened) lend to unintentional release of the harness system on emergency egress; put simply, if you are used to getting out with a seat pack on, you'll leave the plane with it on during a stressful bailout.


I don't have a cat in hells chance of using a much desired back pack, even if I was skinny...one's face is already in the instrument panel, so seat pack and a clunky climb-in is my only option.


You know I've heard this also, but haven't ever read of a case where it happened. I know for the National 425 seat pack I use, you'd have to be very intent on getting out of the parachute thinking you were unstrapping from the airplane.....the buckles are just too dissimilar.


Best regards,


Brad
 

Beej

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Brad, it is more about muscle memory and the brain going into auto mode when stressed...a conscious decision of 'that buckle is red and the other is blue' may not come into play. This is covered by Allen Silver in his writings.
I cannot directly reference an example, but some vague details I recall for one, were that the pilot partially released the harness, jumped, tried to hang on, and the harness left his body taking an arm with it. Perhaps some of you veteran guys know of more details on this...
 

rmarshall234

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Tis good form to not strap on a seat pack while in the plane





Yes indeed.
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And it is, all about muscle memory. In my dozen or so years of preparing students for their “first jump out of a perfectly good airplane” I relied heavily upon this (proven) point. And, saw the results played out time and time again - both in a positive and a negative way. In an extremely stressful situation most people are only able to focus on one (or maybe two) things at a time. So in this case, the body best be doing what it has <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">recently[/I] been prepared to do. “Get in the door”….”ready, set, go”… arch! If I could get students to concentrate on each task individually and the muscle memory was in place, all was (usually) good. And when it came to emergency procedures (when they were entirely on their own) the same thing applied. “Look red, grab red, look silver”, etc.”

While it is possible one might have the presence of mind to say to themselves “no not that strap, the other one” why not stack all the odds in your favor. Besides, my experience also tells me that unless one has practiced the act of <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">looking[/I] as well, it is most likely they will simply start grabbing for stuff.
 

larryM

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I consiously bailout after most flights, then I refocus and disconnect my chute leaving in the the airplane. At regular intervals, I also go through the bail out drill with my son in the front, othertimes, I give him a ground ergress drill. It is good to practice what you will do for real. I think your ok leaving the chute in the plane, before getting out if you make a consenious disconnect from the bailout drill. I lift my but out of the pan, then sit back in to disconnect...
 

rmarshall234

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I think that is an excellent alternative. You are thinking, practicing, and preparing for what will probably never happen but could. That's the most important part.


To address a different point:


I am relatively new to this forum and this place rocks! Tons of excellent suggestions and ideas, a great willingness and effort to share, and of course - civility. Kudos to ALL.
 

Beej

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For those who think that 'I would definitely not have a problem if'..' here is a powerful example of subconscious muscle memory:
In the jump world, muscle memory is a big deal (for obvious reasons), but here is (was?..not jumped for several years) a common issue of the negative effects of muscle memory; transition between differing types of equipment. In some instances, one learns to deploy a main canopy via a ripcord, they are taught to pull andhold on and stow the handle, this procedure ends up in muscle memory. Then they transition to the throw-out deployment method, where they reach and pull and let go so the pilot chute can deploy. So...you can guess what's coming next...no matter how much some guys drill and visualize on the ground the new deployment procedure, there are many that when under stress (deployment time),hold on to what they should be throwing away...you can imagine what interesting dilemmas this can, and has resulted in...
To conclude, no matter how much you train for an alternative action, if the other action is done significantly more frequently, there's a good chance that that action may override the other.....

 

pigpenracing

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nicko said:
I jump into my plane with a seat pack already on without any problems
I bet you can jump in that s1 with a seatpack. It does not have the lift up canopy like the b/c models. The problem is getting your butt over the side of the plane without knocking the canopy off with your back.
 

nicko

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I forgot how different the 2 seaters are. I remember it being difficult to hop in the front seat of a c with the seat pack attached. Are the sidewalls higher up? I also did not consider anthropometric differences. Anyone with short legs shorter than six foot may have a difficult time getting into the one seater.

 

Larry Lyons

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Believe me, muscle memory is real! After years of jumping and having to deploy my reserve parachute more then once I had a system in place. This was back in the bad old days, forty years ago, when all kinds of parachute designs were coming down the pike. We got in to the habit of rolling over after pulling the ripcord to witness the opening. Or not! After several years and about 600 or so jumps with a single shot capewell (one step and you are in free fall again) I bought a new, to me, piggy back system that had the old shot and a half capewells (two steps to free fall) Capewells are what you cut away to leave your malfunctioning main canopy behind. On my first jump with it I found myself riding a less then good canopy, so no problem, I roll back flat to earth and cut way. Well all I did was open the capewell (muscle memory) which now allowed me to cut away. As I was sitting there waiting for the opening shock of my reserve, nothing happened. I looked over my shoulder and saw no parachute! About this time I looked back down and saw the problem, I had not cut away as I thought, I had only uncovered the capewells, not cut away. I reached up and finished the cut away with no farther problems. HOWEVER YOU CAN BELIEVE I DID NOT JUMP AGAIN UNTIL I HAD CONVERTED MY NEW RIG TO SINGLE SHOT, AS THAT WAS WHAT I WAS USED TOO AND HAD USED SUCCESSFULLY SEVERAL TIMES OVER SEVERAL YEARS PRIOR. Believe me muscle memory will kill you as fast as lack of training will. Naval pilots are drilled continuously to eject immediately upon hearing the words "EJECT, EJECT, EJECT" 3 times. When landing on a carrier and everything goes to hell at the last moment the only one that may know that is the LSO and when he says get your butt out, you don't hesitate or question you get out!

PS: I had started my training with the 2 step capewell which was actually 3 steps, uncover, squeeze, and open.
 
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scrumbagpilot

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Ok, my two cents worth. When the organic fertilizer hits the rotating ventalation unit, muscle memory is your first line of defence. One of the first rules of instructing is " first learned, first remembered." Under stress your mind will jump back over a lot of later training and revert to the first method taught. In flying it takes months sometimes to overcome the training received on a different aircraft type or even just from swapping seats. If you are used to peeling off seatbelts and a rig all in the same sequence, from months or years of habit, my money is on your hands following the ingrained behavior.
It's not an easy thing to overcome ingrained habit. It will require deliberate effort over a long period to change what is now instinct. And it's hard to know if the new habits have taken hold without putting them to the test, the hard way. this is part of what initial simulator training trys to accomplish.
My suggestion is to break removing the seatbelts and exiting the aircraft, and removing the parachute into two distinct and separate acts. I also suggest a proper practice grip on the ripcord each time your feet touch the ground after leaving the aircraft. Two hands, thumbs through the handle, Look, Reach, Pull. Don't actually pull it unless its due for repack, unless you like giving your rigger money. In which case I'd like to be your rigger.
1600 skydives, coach, instructor, rigger.
16000 hours Currently terrorising the unsuspecting public in a Dash-8.
Neill
 

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