SA300 Plans

Discussion in 'Starduster' started by Capt007, May 10, 2012.

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  1. May 10, 2012 #1

    Capt007

    Capt007

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    I would like to purchase a Starduster SA300 set of plans but do not want to give Aircraft Spruce $250 for them. Any ideas? Capt007
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  2. May 11, 2012 #2

    Knight Twister

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    What do you think a pre owned set is worth?
     
  3. May 11, 2012 #3

    Dave Baxter

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    Rager I certainly could not agree with you more, if the new plans were complete which they are not and they did not require the purchaser to sign an affidavit stating that you are only going to build one airplane (Legal Advice?) then the price would probably be fair?

    But give me a break who in this day and age is going to scratch build more than one of these airplanes! On the spruce A/C site their might be four active builders and I seriously doubt that any of them are entertaining building another airplane!

    When I worked for Lou Stolp back in the late 60s this question was asked of him and his reply was go for it! All they have done is insure that very few of these wonderful airplanes will ever be built!
     
  4. May 11, 2012 #4

    jasstech

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    I didn't realize that they aren't even a complete set of plans. I guess that makes the decision between a starduster too and a skybolt a much easier one!
     
  5. May 11, 2012 #5

    mikey

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    Dave, just out of curiosity, what is missing on the plans being offered by acs today? not everything that is missing...just the high points. do they not include all those mods developed over the years? I built mine from "91 to 2011 but of course I had the benefit of being able to have all the Starduster magazines and Bill Clouse being available. I suppose I mostly want to know so that if I was to recommend the plane to someone as a project....how they would go about ensuring they at least had a decent chance of building it correctly. thanks, John (jsh) p.s. I wonder what the rights to the design would sell for.
     
  6. May 11, 2012 #6

    NDTOO

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    Don't rule out a Starduster just because of the plans. Consider a started project with plans. As far as being complete Dave can give exact details however I think they are lacking the engine mount and fuel tank plans. Not sure what else.

    I am one of those active builders Dave mentioned. I think I will have suffered through all the drama and comedy necessary to not ever entertain the thought of building another one. But hey, you never know!
     
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  7. May 11, 2012 #7

    Dave Baxter

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    Jasstech & Mikey This is one of the god things about building a Skybolt as their plans are complete and not only can you buy any part you can also call an talk to Dave Stone who can and will answer any of your questions about he airplane!

    I do not mean to criticize the airplane as I have owned and built several and have helped many others in doing so. It is a beautiful and wonderful flying airplane, flew mine earlier today! The problem is A/C Spruce! as when they acquired the rights from Bill Clouse they promised him that they would support the airplane! This has turned out to not be the case! As for the plans NDTOO is quite correct that if you buy plans from them there are no current drawings for either the main or wing tank nor are there drawings for the engine mout either for the O-360 or the 540! Along with this the company use to supply text in the way of builders tips and Spruce no longer does this, they refer you to the the builders group! Dave
     
  8. May 12, 2012 #8

    Capt007

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    I think $100 is good for a used set of plans
     
  9. May 12, 2012 #9

    Don Adamson

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    $100 is what they were priced at for a long time and what I paid for mine.
     
  10. May 12, 2012 #10

    ironman43

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    I have to agree. The plans sold for $100-$125 just a year ago. $250 is a bit greedy if you ask me. Especially since they are copies of copies and not truly complete. Maybe some one here will give up a set. I do have a couple of Acroduster Too plans that are extra and I'm contemplating selling my project. Talk nice to Don also, he has several planes stashed in hangars as well. I think you'll be happy with which ever project you get into though.

    MArk
     
  11. May 14, 2012 #11

    harleygaz

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    Surely between us we can produce copies of plans for engine mounts and fuel tanks? My concern would be if we are breaching some sort of copyright if we copy what we have (I didn't build mine so I'm not sure exactly what I do have!).
     
  12. May 14, 2012 #12

    harleygaz

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    Also I've just seen that there's a Too project for sale on Aircraft Spruce which might be worth a look...
     
  13. May 14, 2012 #13

    Knight Twister

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    My brother has a set of SD II plans from the mid '70's that came with an engine mount drawing. If I remember right it's the short mount but all a builder needs is thrust line information, length is easy.
     
  14. Jan 27, 2018 #14

    DennisV

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    Do the plans have any copyright statement or marking? Did you sign anything saying you would not duplicate them?

    Just wondering.
     
  15. Jan 27, 2018 #15

    Dave Baxter

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    Dennis the newer plans if bought from aircraft Spruce and are 1998 or later do have a clause that requires the purchaser to sign an affidavit stating that you are only going to build one airplane (Legal Advice?) They also have a Statement that they are copyrighted.

    But give me a break who in this day and age is going to scratch build more than one of these airplanes! Today there are only a few active builders and I seriously doubt that any of them are entertaining building another airplane!

    If the plans are the early ones prior to 1998 there are no copyright statement or text on those plans, and therefore could be copied. I do not advocate coping and selling plans, but have copied and supplied missing pages for the older plans to builders for cost. I currently work with Michael Vega who works for A/C Spruce and has been tasked with solving all things Starduster and have supplied them with drawings and information regarding customer inquirer's regarding the Starduster Too as well as other Starduster aircraft. I also have copies of the early original plans 1966 and most of the later revisions 1968 & 69. These plus the interim drawings done by Les Homan 6-1998 and the latest revisions that were autocadded by his son that Spruce currently sells dated 10-9 -1998

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  16. Jan 27, 2018 #16

    planebuilder

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    I have a couple sets of SD2 plans I got 2nd hand, so I didn't sign anything. There are sets around, often for $100 on Barnstormers or eb. If you can't find any let me know. As far as omissions, I don't believe it's an issue, there is all the help you need on this forum.
     
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  17. Jan 27, 2018 #17

    DennisV

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    Dave and Morgan: Thanks for your replies. Very interesting that they require that statement, but I agree that it's unlikely any one person will build more than one of these things. I think their concern is more having multiple people use the same plans, so can't blame them for protecting their investment in the copyrights I suppose.

    Just to further illuminate what I bought, I got a mostly finished basic structure and it appears to include most of the parts to finish except for fabric, paint, electrics, and I'll need a better prop. The original builder had passed away and his family did not have a good idea what they had or did not have. Frankly, only time will tell what I really got I suppose, but one thing I did NOT get was the plans. I got a box I was told had the plans in it, and I did not unroll them all to look at the time. They are woefully incomplete, and it turned out, some of them are not even for an SD -- actually, some for an EAA biplane.

    So at this point, I'm just guessing at how the thing goes together, although most of it makes sense. Fairly straightforward design it seems. I have run across a couple of head-scratchers, but I'm probably going to post a few pictures this weekend along with some questions on a few pieces. After reading a bazillion posts on this forum last night, I think I may mount up the landing gear this weekend to see where they placed the mains relative to the firewall to see whether those are going to need to be "fixed." I have an O360 for it, so sounds like the wheels will need to be farther aft to get good W&B.

    That said, I was going to bite the bullet and order the plans from AS&S this weekend, but then I started reading some posts regarding the lack of completeness in what Spruce sells, so I though a bit more research was in order. What do the "new" plans include? Do they provide the materials lists, hardware recommendations, etc.?

    Thanks again for your replies and all the great info.
     
  18. Jan 27, 2018 #18

    Rick-CAS

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    I have a set of ACS Starduster plans. There is no material list which causes a lot of problems. Only part of the plans give material call outs but most do not. An example is the landing gear drawing. It gives all the dimensions but no tubing size or wall thickness. The aileron hinges are the same way. No material specs for the hinge just the mounting angles. The forward slave strut drawings have printing on top of printing that’s unreadable and dimensions that have no reference point. Like mentioned before there is no engine mount, fuel tank, or thrust line info. All of this can be found by doing a bunch of research but it shouldn’t be that way. ACS knows of most of these issues but doesn’t care to fix them.
     
  19. Jan 27, 2018 #19

    Knight Twister

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    The CAD plans I have came with a separate material list. I also have a set of 1960's era plans and a apparently rare set of symmetrical wing drawings. The only SD II I'm aware of that was built that way was Oscar Bayer's. As far as sharing a copy of lost drawings I see nothing wrong with that or making copies to have in the shop and in the house. We're lucky there is still people that want to build a SD of any kind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  20. Jan 27, 2018 #20

    planebuilder

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    CAD plans? I didn't know there were and CAD plans for the SD, how do they compare to the old ones?
     

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