Starduster too fuel systems

Discussion in 'Starduster' started by DTP, Jun 5, 2017.

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  1. Jun 5, 2017 #1

    DTP

    DTP

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    I'm looking for advice on fuel systems. Current 3 year build is coming to completion and I've decided on a HIO360C1A as my engine of choice. I'm asking your opinion on fuel systems. My Inverted Main tank is complete whats the best fuel system? All advice welcome. Thanks DTP
     
  2. Jun 6, 2017 #2

    EAABipe40FF

    EAABipe40FF

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    If you have a standard Starduster tank with integral inverted header tank, well that is indeed your fuel system.;)

    I have the same but smaller tank on the Acroduster. My system is thus: Tank outlet to fuel selector @ my right knee, then to the following 3 items in belly,
    1. Airflow Performance filter
    2. ACS Hi-PSI gascolator
    3. Airflow Performance boost pump

    Then through bulkhead fitting to engine driven pump and on to Bendix FI servo.

    There are three fittings on front of tank:

    1 upright vent routed to belly or gear leg
    2 inverted vent routed up cabane
    3 return line if you have a PS5C(not used in mine)

    (My fuel selector also has an inlet for a wing/CS tank, I'm not using it)

    Jack
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  3. Jun 6, 2017 #3

    DTP

    DTP

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    Thank You very much. DTP
     
  4. Jun 6, 2017 #4

    EAABipe40FF

    EAABipe40FF

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    Please be advised there are other viable options. There was a recent thread discussing whether to have items in front/FWF or behind of the firewall. Vapor lock is my reason to keep things on the cold side of FW.

    Also placement of gascolater to prevent rupture in case of gear collapse. Some are not using a gascolator instead having a filter and sump drain at low point.

    I'd want to hear Dave Baxter's opinion. He's busy with his SA100 but maybe send him a PM?

    Jack
     
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  5. Jun 6, 2017 #5

    DHonkomp

    DHonkomp

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    I think there are a couple of good articles on this very subject in the Starduster news letters. You can get to them from this website.
     
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  6. Jun 7, 2017 #6

    Lotahp1

    Lotahp1

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    My Starduster Too has its fuel selector mounted on firewall with a rod and a couple small u-joints connecting to a fuel selector lever located in a box that is mounted forward of the rear seat control stick. This "box" is fairly common in not only stardusters but other like planes. It houses the mag switch, fuel selector, some instruments etc.
    The actual fuel valve, and gascolator, and boost pump were all located in hot side of firewall.

    I had thought about a redesign. As you need to be able to turn off the fuel in case of a fire forward of firewall. I have decided I'm not going to redesign at this point. It's worked for many hundreds of hours. But I am going to do steel fittings on firewall, and firesleeved hoses instead of as many hard aluminum lines it had. I also plan on a small stainless box around the fuel selector with air blast from cowl diverted to it. I can take pictures of you need.
     
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  7. Jun 7, 2017 #7

    EAABipe40FF

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    Yes, there are very good comments in the newsletters. There have been MAJOR issues with venting for example. You should read those comments.

    Jack
     
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  8. Sep 19, 2017 #8

    2GUNS

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    Sir, I do not have a set of plans in front of me so I have to ask if that is ok. In the parts list of the Starduster2 talks about wing tank ? is this the one tank above your head center or is there room in th wings for right and left tanks? There is mention the Starlet can fly 600 miles on 22 gal of fuel if that is possible 65 HP in 4 cil. is going to eat more fuel then a twin must have been the use for the rating. I want to have the ability to do longer distance in the 5/600 mi. range. That's why I ask you about internal wing tank R&L ?
     
  9. Sep 19, 2017 #9

    Dave Baxter

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    The center section wing tank is commonly installed in the center section and normally holds about 16 gallons, it could be enlarged to possibly 18 gallons, and the main tank holds approximately 28 gallons, and that would be a total of 46 gallons, as a person that has flown my Starduster on some long cross country flights, compared to most, that is about 4.5 hrs of absolute flight time with no reserve, and with a 180 hp lycoming figuring 10 gph round numbers, we usually plan for about 200 to 250 nautical miles, or about 2hr flight time at 105 kts with plenty of reserve, depending on the winds.
    Have I flown it longer , yes on several occasions 3.5 hrs and one time almost 4.0 hrs due to severe headwinds, but it is not fun or comfortable to do this, especially as one gets older.

    I do not know of anyone that has ever flown a Starlet 600 nautical miles non stop and non refueled, (This is unrealistic, and wishful thinking) can it be done possibly, as for the Starlet or the Starduster Too there were never any drawings or information for building and installing additional wing tanks in the outer wing panels on either airplane, again could it be done possibly, but for most that fly these airplane 2.5 hr flights are more than enough. I have flown my airplane to Oshkosh from Oregon nine times, as well as all over the south west. many others have have made cross country flights, but most do not. The wind and air noise is fatiguing for most, as well as ones personal range, and as I have gotten older my range is not nearly as long as my airplanes! Dave

    SAM_0441small.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
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  10. Sep 19, 2017 #10

    Lotahp1

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    Dave, that is so cool how you've kept up with where you've gone! I hope I get to use mine half as much as you have. What a journey.

    For reference my plane was marked 33 gallons for the main tank and 17 for the center section tank so 50gallons total. I'm not sure if those numbers are correct as I never got a chance to fill from empty. I will in the hope not to distant future. Even with Ranger that's a lot of fuel. Almost 4 hours. I'm about 2-2.5hr leg kinda guy also. But I'm sure glad I have the top tank. I'd definitely build my Starduster Too with the center section tank. Its always nice to have a Extra tank to draw fuel from (assuming you plumb it so you can actually feed off the center tank and it doesn't just drain into the main). It got its own vent and if you had a issue you could always try switching to it. Plus it's just nice to have the Range so you won't be so hesitant to use it as God intended and leave your home airspace...way to many biplane/classic plane owners rarely leave a 50 mile radius of "home".
     
  11. Sep 20, 2017 #11

    mreinh3233

    mreinh3233

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    I have a SD too with a 35gal main tank (checked from empty with 5gal gas cans) and a 16gal center wing tank. 5 gal is unusable in the main tank. With my 0-320/150 I use about 6GPH at 2450RPM for a 100MPH IAS. Thats 5hrs of flying no reserve. The wing tank is not hooked up and I'm in no hurry to put it into service as my butt gives out at about two hours flight time anyway. Two hours flying leaves me plenty of reserve fuel. Honestly if the aircraft didn't come with the wing tank I wouldn't have put one in as it's extra unneeded weight as far as I'm concerned.
     
  12. Sep 20, 2017 #12

    EAABipe40FF

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    2.5 hours + reserve is plenty. I seem to have a 23 gal main tank in my AD2 and IMO it's enough. I have a wing tank not plumbed.
     
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  13. Sep 21, 2017 #13

    Tom Wilson

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    I'll chime in by saying my 540-powered Too has a 27.5 gal main tank and a 17 gal wing tank. Much of my flying is cross country and I use both tanks all the time. Like everyone else, I can last 2 hrs comfortably, 2.5 hrs when needed and must get out and stretch my legs after that. But my seat is uncomfortable and at 6' 2" tall with longish legs comfort is not my airplane's long suite by any means.

    I fly cross country at 11 gph, lean of peak and manage 148 mph or so with the front cockpit covered and windshield removed. It's more like 140 mph (really about 138 mph) with both windshields in place. So, 2 hrs = 300 miles most of the time for me.

    So, I use the wing tank first, of course, and most of the time I end up with a nice, fat reserve in the main tank; other times I use plenty of it, too. The wing tank is a bit compromised in that it feeds fine when half or more full, or when climbing. But if descending the wing tank unports in a hurry, and in level flight it's necessary to push hard on the stick for the final 20+ minutes to fly L wing low to pickup all the fuel. But it is possible to fly 1.5 hours on the wing tank under ideal conditions, so that really gives you some options when hopping over mountains, selecting airports for low fuel prices, emergencies, etc.

    Given my mainly X-country missions and big engine I can't imagine operating my airplane without the wing tank. And you can always empty it for local aerobatic flights, taking heavy passengers, etc.
     
  14. Sep 21, 2017 #14

    TFF1

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    A Starlet with a 65 hp Continental will probably use under 4 gal an hour cruise so if you had room for 20 gallons you could probably have a no reserve 5 hours. It will not be a rocket. 100-110 mph probably. As much as i love parasols, something like a Sonerai IIL going 145 mph on the same fuel burn makes more sense.
     
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  15. Sep 21, 2017 #15

    Lotahp1

    Lotahp1

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    "I have a SD too with a 35gal main tank (checked from empty with 5gal gas cans) and a 16gal center wing tank. 5 gal is unusable in the main tank."

    5 gallons unusable????? That's a crazy amount. That's 30lbs that does nothing. Are you sure? Really odd how different all the Starduster Too tank sizes are. From 27-35 gallon main tank is a big range for basically the same space taken up. I wonder how many gallons the "factory" tank was or if there were many "factory" tanks made?

    With my "mission" and goals for my plane I can't see Not having the wing tank. But I'm flying behind a thirsty engine like Tom. On cross countries it's always nice to have more than enough. For local only play. Yes I can see never needing a wing tank.
     
  16. Sep 22, 2017 #16

    EAABipe40FF

    EAABipe40FF

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    Do you have a factory tank? Does your tank have a flop tube?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the SD2 and AD2 share the same design main tank? They have a integral header tank W/stand pipe below the main tank. There is a flop tube in the header tank.

    My AD2 has less than 1 gal. of unusable fuel.

    So I wonder about your tank and agree that 30# of useless fuel is......USELESS/ UNACCEPTABLE ! :(

    Jack
     
  17. Sep 22, 2017 #17

    Lotahp1

    Lotahp1

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    Jack

    I must admit I did not know there is a flop tube in the tank. How does one change it? I guess I need to look inside mine. I will add I found the cap to what looked like a WD-40 can inside my tank when I first removed it. That could have been bad...very bad. I remember way back then looking inside but I don't recall seeing a flop tube? I'll look again.
     
  18. Sep 22, 2017 #18

    EAABipe40FF

    EAABipe40FF

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    If you indeed have a tank like my AD2 you can't see the flop tub. All you see is the bottom of the main tank which is the top of the header tank. The outlet of my tank is in the bottom front(which is the header tank), the flop tub is behind the outlet.
     
  19. Sep 22, 2017 #19

    Lotahp1

    Lotahp1

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    Ahhh. My tank has a plug in that forward part of the lower header tank portion. I think on the bottom of the header tank is another bung where the fuel comes out on mine. I'll look and post some pics....
     
  20. Sep 22, 2017 #20

    EAABipe40FF

    EAABipe40FF

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    To be clear the outlet w/ flop tube is not on the bottom. It is on the front of the tank, bottom of front surface.
     

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