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Welcome to the Timber Tiger ST-L Subforum - Introductions

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Joined
May 24, 2012
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Location
Cameron Park, CA. (O61)
Hello and welcome to the Timber Tiger ST-L subforum. Thank you to Beej and the BiplaneForum.com friends who helped to make this happen!

This subforum was created to give ST-L folks a fantastic builders community to participate it and become a part of. This forum will serve as builder-to-builder support that is not otherwise covered by Timber Tiger's technical assistance. Additionally, this website offers a great member knowledge base for other topics that go beyond what Timber Tiger Aircraft can or should assist with.

If you're a fan of the ST-L, building one, thinking about building one, etc., please take a moment to introduce yourself on this thread. Tell us about your interests in the ST-L.

Thanks!
 

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In 2017, I was searching for an original Ryan ST-A aircraft to restore to flying condition. A quick reality check showed me just how rare and unavailable a Ryan ST-A project actually is. My next step was to see if there were any replica kits or plans on the market. Not a one. My research did, however, steer me towards rumors of someone in Colorado, Nick Pfannenstiel, who was starting to design a replica that he could offer for sale as a partial kit.
I tracked down Nick and suggested we collaborate on the project. Not knowing me, but in desperate need of help, he guardedly agreed. At the time, he was four tailcone bulkheads into the build.

I quickly helped bring the project to the world of CAD. The construction rate of the prototype grew exponentially as did the comprehensiveness of the kit that could be offered for sale, leading to great appeal to a wider builder market. I helped create tooling and models that would be directly used for the fabrication of the parts. In addition, I created all of the surface models for the complex shapes. These models would later be used to create tooling for molds and bucks for the challenging compound-curved aluminum which defines the beauty of the design.

Once the prototype airframe was inspected and received its airworthiness certificate, Phase I flight testing was completed by the company test pilot. This consisted of an FAA prescribed testing regime which is intended to show that the aircraft is capable of safe flight in compliance with Federal Aviation Regulations. Soon after, I completed a flight checkout in the airplane with the company test pilot.

In 2021 and 2022, I flew it to cross-country to AirVenture in Oshkosh, WI; an annual aviation exhibition hosted by the Experimental Aircraft Association. There, the airplane was displayed and offered in kit form for sale to prospective builders and buyers. Kits are currently in production, and to date, over 50 sub-kits have been shipped to customers across the country and in Europe.

In 2022, after completing construction of our hangar home at the Cameron Park, CA airport, it was finally time for me to get busy building my own ST-L. Having helped design the ST-L makes this airplane a particularly exciting build project for me.

I started with the empannage kit, building the horizontal and vertical stabilizers, the elevators, and the rudder. The structure of these components is complete and they are currently set aside until its time to cover them with fabric prior to paint.

I am nearing completion of the wings. This is the first ST-L being built as a clipped wing. A design change intended to increase the crosswind capability, aerobatic capabilities, and cruise performance of the aircraft. The ailerons have been built as well and I am currently in the process of completing the design and fabrication of custom 3:1 wingtip lighting as well as vintage appearance landing and taxi lights.

Portfolio page to my ST-L Kitplane Build

My Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) Builder’s Log

Glenn S. Gordon

 

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Rob Bennett here, based at Hayward, CA (KHWD) Very cool little airplane. I'd have interest in this kit powered by something other than a Rotax. I just don't like the high RPM bee swarm sound of those engines, which is probably a silly reason to not like them, but there it is. Otherwise it looks like you guys did right with this kit. It's beautiful. Maybe a Verner radial...

I need to finish my Pitts S-1S rebuild (this summer?) and then my grandfather's '56 F-250 (2025?) before any new projects. But I'm anxious to follow what gets posted on the subject.
 
@Shack 25PS

We designed the exhaust system to cut off some of that high end noise. Attached is a video clip of a flyby where you can hear it.

The D-Motor LF-39 would have been perfect, but they couldn't compete with Rotax and withdrew from the North American and Homebuilt markets.

We have a builder using a Verner 7 cylinder engine to build his ST-L as a PT-20A.

We also have a builder using UL Power and another looking at the Gen 4 Jabiru.

What engine would you like to put in there? Perhaps we can help?
 

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Glenn,

How many full airframe kits are represented by the 50 or so sub kits sold this far?
55 ST-L Subkits, 20 different builders, 2 Early-bird Jenny full kits, 8 ST-L Fuselage quick build kits, and 2 slow build kits. We have 3-4 more quick build fuselages to be completed before October.
 
As the buyer of one of those 50 some-odd sub-kits I very enthusiastically welcome the creation of this new sub-forum. I have spent most of my working life behind a desk rather than doing things mechanical so I can use all the help and support I can get. Fortunately, I live in an airpark surrounded by some very talented people who are willing to advise and critique my efforts.

The first real operation is forming the joint between the vertical spars and the leading and trailing edges. I bought some scrap material and made 5 or 6 such pieces before attempting the actual part. It’s a good thing I did as my early efforts were less than stellar. I just completed forming the first actual part and it looks pretty good. I must say that I have learned a lot so far and I am just beginning.

My goal is to pretty much finish up the tail before ordering the balance of the kit. I plan on using the quick build options that are available. I am leaning toward the clipped wing version powered by a 7-cylinder Verner radial.

Bruce Cynamon
Love’s Landing 97FL
Weirsdale, FL
 

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Yes. Wherever visible / required / possible / and practical.
So I'm looking at this in greater detail... The tube to spar rivets on the elevators I did using four blind rivets at each end

The tube to spar rivets on the rudder I did with two solid rivets at each end
 

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Nice work. I hope to finish forming the ends of the rudder and vertical over the next few days. It appears that the holes in the ribs for V2 and V3 may need to be enlarged slightly. They look to be about .020" undersized.
 
What's the max horsepower design limit and max weight design limit FWF (engine/prop/exhaust/ectrical/fuel system)?
 
What's the max horsepower design limit and max weight design limit FWF (engine/prop/exhaust/ectrical/fuel system)?

Empty weight: 800-830 lbs
Gross weight and limit loads: 1,420 lbs @ 3.8G+/2.0- G
1,350 lbs @ 4G, 1230 lbs@ 4.4+/2- G
Clipped wing option: 1,200 lbs @ 6 G limit, 1,420 lbs @ 4+/2-G

Engine options from 100-140 hp.

The original Ryan ST series had an inverted inline Menasco pirate engine ranging from 100-150 hp. The Rotax 912, it is a very light engine by comparison, and for the Timber Tiger ST-L design to faithfully follow the lines of the Ryan ST, a bit of nose ballast is necessary to bring the CG to where it needs to be. That said, a higher firewall forward weight isn't likely to be a problem giving you more engine options. Figure the max engine weight is around 230 lbs. The caveat is selecting an engine that fits the narrow confines of the inline appearing cowling.

We have a builder using a Verner 7 cylinder radial, and another using the UL Power. We also show options to use a small Continental with the cylinders poking out the sides kinda like a cub.
 
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Thanks, I figured the Menasco would be fairly heavy but haven't found a definitive weight number. Can't be lighter than a parallel valve 150/180 hp Lycoming. I've only seen a few original pictures of metal bladed ground adjustable propellers on ST/ST-A which are most likely similar to a fixed pitch Sensenich so their new ground adjustable prop or wood fixed pitch or Catto prop should be similar in weight to the original wood props on the business end of the original Menasco/STA/ST-A installations. Kim Kovach probably still has those Menasco numbers in his head from his Howard days.

Cowling lines can be faked fairly well sometimes. I had a nicely ''faked'' Lycoming in the front end of a Jungmann that looked fine to me especially since the original cowl was for the Tigre engine Spanish built 1.131 Jungmann model. Picture is with an MT fixed pitch prop and MT supplied spinner assembly. Don't remember the prop numbers but was on a list of Lyc Jungmann versions at MT. Cowling was fiberglass, split down the middle vertically, hinged at the top. Fasteners were 4000 series camloc's.

This particular airplane was one of the last of the Woody Menear Jungmann mods done in the late 1980's or early 1990's.
 

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Thanks, I figured the Menasco would be fairly heavy but haven't found a definitive weight number. Can't be lighter than a parallel valve 150/180 hp Lycoming. I've only seen a few original pictures of metal bladed ground adjustable propellers on ST/ST-A which are most likely similar to a fixed pitch Sensenich so their new ground adjustable prop or wood fixed pitch or Catto prop should be similar in weight to the original wood props on the business end of the original Menasco/STA/ST-A installations. Kim Kovach probably still has those Menasco numbers in his head from his Howard days.

Cowling lines can be faked fairly well sometimes. I had a nicely ''faked'' Lycoming in the front end of a Jungmann that looked fine to me especially since the original cowl was for the Tigre engine Spanish built 1.131 Jungmann model. Picture is with an MT fixed pitch prop and MT supplied spinner assembly. Don't remember the prop numbers but was on a list of Lyc Jungmann versions at MT. Cowling was fiberglass, split down the middle vertically, hinged at the top. Fasteners were 4000 series camloc's.

This particular airplane was one of the last of the Woody Menear Jungmann mods done in the late 1980's or early 1990's.

I'm eyeing that ground adjustable Sensenich.
On my RV-6 I had a three blade Performance Propellers, and on the Marquart Charger I had a 2 blade Performance Propellers... I love their props... but for this application I think that Sensenich will give me exactly what I need from a performance and aesthetic standpoint.
 

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